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Thorins_apprentice
Rohan
Mar 20 2013, 12:27am
Post #1 of 24
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Thorin, the Most to Least Dwarvish in looks.??
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One thing i noticed about Thorin is his number of different changes in looks.I don't know if it was due to last minute changes in the makeup department but it intrigued me all the same.Where did you find he looked his most and least dwarvish and in what scenes.'
For me it's
Most Dwarvish: When he's singing at Bagend, the posture of his body looks stocky and beard even looks more full and the outfit looks perfectly Dwarven.
Least Dwarvish: When he flees from smaug at the start.He looks like a normal man when he yells help us.
We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.
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Kimtc
Rohan
Mar 20 2013, 12:32am
Post #2 of 24
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This is an interesting question.
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I think for me he looked least dwarvish when he was fighting Azog at Azanulbizar. Mostly because his neck showed the most there, and when their necks are too long looking, they look less dwarvish.
Most? Hmm, I never thought he looked too terribly dwarvish (but not totally elvish like Kili). I guess the closest is when he is running around with the others from the orcs, right before they jump into the Hidden Passage. Or maybe in the moon runes scene--when he had to hang around Elrond and Gandalf, it made him look more like a dwarf.
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Lindele
Gondor
Mar 20 2013, 1:34am
Post #3 of 24
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Scenes, in Erebor and at Moria he was a lot younger. Judging by Kili and Fili this is a trait of younger dwarves, to look more man like.
I definitely wouldn't say Thorins look wasn't consistent
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marillaraina
Rohan
Mar 20 2013, 5:26am
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I think it was just a height thing but, while I have zero issues with the dwarvish looks of the current Heirs of Durin and like the idea of dwarves having a wide variety of looks and features, I would guess he looks most stereotypically dwarvish in Rivendell when they are discussing and checking the map with Elrond. Like I said a height thing really.
And I guess least is at the Battle of Azanulbizar, it's a specific point where I think he stands at the edge of a steep drop or on a large rock outcropping.
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Mar 20 2013, 5:35pm
Post #5 of 24
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Hmm, let us examine this subject closely.
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I did notice that Thorin's looks do change throughout the movie, and I don’t think we can blame it entirely on his aging process. I will say first that I personally don't think he ever looks undwarvish, because he always carries himself like a dwarf. I see what you mean about how he looks as he asks the elves for help…but then he smolders as only a grudge-carrying dwarf can do.
First, some comments on his appearance in general.
Of course we notice the changes from the flashbacks, when his hair and beard are darker and he has less of a receding hairline, and also that now he no longer has a long beard and his beardkeeper bead.
In his very first Erebor appearance he looks slim to me, sort of like Kili does now, as if he hasn't entirely grown into his frame yet. But I think his skin looks like it has a weird texture as he stands next to his grandfather's throne. (Did anyone else notice that?) Unfortunately I can't find a good screencap of that one.
I understand that depending on the lighting and where the filming is taking place, his makeup will need to change. However, some places he has a lot of dark eyeshadow: “Give him a pony”, the orc chase before Rivendell, and at the abandoned farmhouse before Trollshaws, where I found his I-have-two-black-eyes makeup downright distracting. (Please, those of you in the peanut gallery, refrain from making snarky comments about how I find him distracting all the time! )
Also his eyebrows seem to change. In the “I cannot guarantee his safety” scene, and the Misty Mountains song, they look quite narrow and bushy, but in other places they seem broader but calmer. Link.
In the final fight with Azog, he's got wrinkles and bags under his eyes (before the bruises and cuts). (Pic is not terribly close up, sorry.) I’m not sure if that is meant to show us the duress he’s under...
All that said, I think he looks most like how I imagine the “classic” dwarf look in scenes when he’s wearing his fur-trimmed coat, because it gives him extra bulk. The scene of him blacksmithing makes me think “dwarf” too. The scene in which he has dinner with Elrond also makes him look dwarvish not just because of his size and his obvious hostility, but because of the contrast in his stubborn bearing with the elegance and grace of the elves. But the scene that really seals him in my mind as a dwarf is the Misty Mountains song scene, where not only is he surrounded by only other dwarves, but the song itself evokes all that is dwarvish. (And to be honest, seeing his stubby fingers there helps a lot!)
"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment
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sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea
Mar 20 2013, 7:31pm
Post #6 of 24
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While i still think Thorin looks too young and un-dwarf-like,
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(even though he looks pretty cool), i like Richard Armatage's rationalization for Thorin's lack of beard in the films that he gave in A Hobbit's Tale Part I: The Journey Begins... In the book, during Smaug's attack on Erebor, Thorin's beard gets singed off, and as an act of penance, he will not have a beard until he reclaims his kingdom. Once he does, he will grow a true dwarf beard. I can live with that.
As far as looking least/most dwarvish, i thought he kept the same level of dwarvishness (or lack thereof) throughout the film, even in the different time periods.
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kiwifan
Rohan
Mar 20 2013, 8:27pm
Post #7 of 24
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His eyes look green in 'link'!
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Thanks for the detailed examination, very interesting!
The picture you put in this collection (called 'link') where RA is being touched up with a brush (oops, that sounds strange --- I mean his make-up is touched up) with a green screen behind him, his eyes look positively green. I have been wondering if they are in real life as intensely blue as in the film (for instance, when he wakes up in the cave while Bilbo is talking to Bofur).
I also think he looks most dwarvish in Bag End and in Rivendell.
'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Mar 20 2013, 11:06pm
Post #8 of 24
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(even though he looks pretty cool), i like Richard Armatage's rationalization for Thorin's lack of beard in the films that he gave in A Hobbit's Tale Part I: The Journey Begins... In the book, during Smaug's attack on Erebor, Thorin's beard gets singed off, and as an act of penance, he will not have a beard until he reclaims his kingdom. Once he does, he will grow a true dwarf beard. I can live with that.
...also a real beard almost always looks better than a fake one, and it stays on better too!
"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Mar 20 2013, 11:59pm
Post #9 of 24
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They do seem to reflect the green
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but Richard Armitage's eyes are intensely blue.  You can sort of tell in the orc chase link above.
The picture you put in this collection (called 'link') where RA is being touched up with a brush (oops, that sounds strange --- I mean his make-up is touched up) with a green screen behind him, his eyes look positively green. I have been wondering if they are in real life as intensely blue as in the film (for instance, when he wakes up in the cave while Bilbo is talking to Bofur).
Thanks for the detailed examination, very interesting!
You're welcome. Anytime, I assure you! 
"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Mar 21 2013, 1:09am
Post #11 of 24
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We must draw the line somewhere.
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Or are we risking getting censured? Probably!!!!!! The picture you put in this collection (called 'link') where RA is being touched up with a brush (oops, that sounds strange --- (NO, actually it sounds quite delightful!) Thanks for the detailed examination, very interesting! You're welcome. Anytime, I assure you!
Indeed, in the interest of science and love of the Tolkienesque in general many detailed exams are both justified, forthcoming and jolly good fun....
Well, I wouldn't go looking in anyone's tubes for parasites.  One has one's standards.
"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment
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Brethil
Half-elven
Mar 21 2013, 1:28am
Post #12 of 24
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IN-deed! We need some boundaries
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Totally correct. Tubes and parasites sounds too much like my RL job.
Flowing hair, clinging wet clothing, comparing fur textures (take that as you will) and searching out hidden tattoos I think are all quite acceptable for examination.
Hell hath no fury like a Dragon who is missing a cup.
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marillaraina
Rohan
Mar 21 2013, 1:36am
Post #13 of 24
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In his very first Erebor appearance he looks slim to me, sort of like Kili does now, as if he hasn't entirely grown into his frame yet. But I think his skin looks like it has a weird texture as he stands next to his grandfather's throne. (Did anyone else notice that?) Unfortunately I can't find a good screencap of that one.
I think I know what you are talking about, but I figured it was to make him look younger, smooth out and plump up his skin like a young person's is.
It reminded me of them gauzing up the lens, which is an old trick for making older actors appear younger by softening up the focus(think original Star Trek series and just about any close up of one of Kirk's love interests too LOL)
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Mar 21 2013, 2:09am
Post #14 of 24
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In his very first Erebor appearance he looks slim to me, sort of like Kili does now, as if he hasn't entirely grown into his frame yet. But I think his skin looks like it has a weird texture as he stands next to his grandfather's throne. (Did anyone else notice that?) Unfortunately I can't find a good screencap of that one. I think I know what you are talking about, but I figured it was to make him look younger, smooth out and plump up his skin like a young person's is. It reminded me of them gauzing up the lens, which is an old trick for making older actors appear younger by softening up the focus(think original Star Trek series and just about any close up of one of Kirk's love interests too LOL)
Here is Young Thorin. I guess what I thought was texture is just weird coloring or splotchiness. Could that be the result of gauzing? (And didn't they do gauzing for Mr. Shatner too? Or was that just for his toupee? )
"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Mar 21 2013, 2:50am
Post #15 of 24
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That's right. Searching cracks and crevises is for goblins.
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Our research is far more sophisticated, and for the benefit of all womankind.
Or something like that.
"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment
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Cirashala
Valinor
Mar 21 2013, 2:56am
Post #16 of 24
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I was looking for that thinking that was a possibility, but I can't figure out when he would have had it singed. When he rescues Balin is the only time in the prologue I see him exposed directly to dragon fire, and he has Balin in front of him, so I can see that his hair in the back may be singed, but his beard was protected by Balin's head. And in that brief burst of flame, Balin doesn't lose all his hair and beard, so I can't figure out how Thorin would have lost his.
I do agree about the beard being kept short given all the grief he has suffered through (see my first post "dwarf beards and lifecycles"-I gave an in depth analysis on the dwarf beards)
Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm
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Cirashala
Valinor
Mar 21 2013, 2:59am
Post #17 of 24
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I must admit I am surprised-with all the Thorin-fever around these boards, I would have thought that someone would have mentioned that Thorin's hair itself (not beard) is much shorter here in this screencap in Erebor than it is in AUJ. Closer to the length of Kili's hair in AUJ.
And if anyone has mentioned it, and I just missed it, my apologies
Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm
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marillaraina
Rohan
Mar 21 2013, 3:37am
Post #18 of 24
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Both Kili and Fili's eyebrows are less bushy than even his when he was young. It's pretty clear that allowed both Aidan Turner and Dean O'Gorman to have their foreheads clean of prosthetics(both only have a nose, Fili's more than Kili's but Dean's nose is longer than Aidan's anyway and Fili was described as having a long nose in the books), Turner's got some pretty...brilliant eyebrows in his own right but I think they are the only two who don't have that sort of long bushy look.
Ori possibly doesn't, he almost looks like he doesn't have eyebrows. He's also a young dwarf so I don't think it marks them as out of place, young dwarves just have varying degrees of body hair is how I take it. :)
But back to Thorin, I hadn't noticed his hair but you are right it is shorter. Also I don't remember Armitage saying HIS beard was singed, but I do remember him saying that Thror and Thrains beards were supposed to have been singed and so he did it as a remembrance of them until he could regain Erebor.
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kiwifan
Rohan
Mar 21 2013, 10:50am
Post #19 of 24
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Certainly the green screen causes some of the greenishness in RA's eyes
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but I've also noticed in various interviews on youtube and TORn that his eyes seem much less blue, more indeterminate. It's too bad I've lost/mislaid my 'North and South' DVD (am in the process of getting a new one) because that would give me a good comparison. I've been wondering whether his eyes were colour-graded in post-production, but I don't think he's wearing coloured contact lenses.
I do love that intense blue...*sighs wistfully*
'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Mar 21 2013, 11:40am
Post #20 of 24
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Too blue or not too blue, that is the question.
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but I've also noticed in various interviews on youtube and TORn that his eyes seem much less blue, more indeterminate. It's too bad I've lost/mislaid my 'North and South' DVD (am in the process of getting a new one) because that would give me a good comparison. I've been wondering whether his eyes were colour-graded in post-production, but I don't think he's wearing coloured contact lenses.
I do love that intense blue...*sighs wistfully*
I hope you get your North and South soon! I am always amazed that in the last scene Margaret is able to explain her business proposition with John sitting there looking at her like that. I wouldn't even have been able to remember my own name!! Although I would have been able to respond to "Are you going home with me?" You betcha, baby! Oh, and you're right, his eyes don't look blazingly blue there either. Wait, what were we talking about, again? 
"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment
(This post was edited by Riven Delve on Mar 21 2013, 11:40am)
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Mar 21 2013, 11:44am
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I didn't notice.  And I was so close to earning my Thorin-Gazing Merit Badge, too! Shucks. Guess I better get back to my studies.
Thanks for the tip!
"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Mar 21 2013, 11:56am
Post #22 of 24
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Both Kili and Fili's eyebrows are less bushy than even his when he was young. It's pretty clear that allowed both Aidan Turner and Dean O'Gorman to have their foreheads clean of prosthetics(both only have a nose, Fili's more than Kili's but Dean's nose is longer than Aidan's anyway and Fili was described as having a long nose in the books), Turner's got some pretty...brilliant eyebrows in his own right but I think they are the only two who don't have that sort of long bushy look.
Ori possibly doesn't, he almost looks like he doesn't have eyebrows. He's also a young dwarf so I don't think it marks them as out of place, young dwarves just have varying degrees of body hair is how I take it. :) Yeah, Fili and Kili (and Ori) would need several more decases or so under their belts before they could braid their eyebrows into their hair like Nori! (Guess the brothers never will get the chance. *Sniffle*)
"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment
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kiwifan
Rohan
Mar 21 2013, 8:01pm
Post #23 of 24
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I think it was in elaen32's thread 'Interview with Richard Armitage on UK TV this morning' (several pages back on the Hobbit board) that the question of RA having chest hair or not cropped up, with pictures. Well, in this screencap it certainly looks as if he does, at least a bit. And I've been studying my copy of Brian Sibley's (Hobbit AUJ) 'Official Movie Guide' which lives in my bed (not, I must emphatically state, for any other reason than reading a bit in it when I'm plagued by insomnia which, alas, is all too often the case --- so no one needs to censor this post ), and on page 120 there is a photo of RA in the Make-Up Department sitting in a chair, eyes closed (meditating?), being prepared for the day. And I could swear he has some sort of downy hair on his neck --- can't find my magnifying glass, but it really looks like it. In this screencap, there's a bit of it on his throat, too, but not as much. Do any of my fellow members of the TAS (Thorin Appreciation Society, or do we have another name?) --- anyway, do any of you ladies have this book and can tell me whether that is downy hair or what? Must feel nice to the touch, it looks so soft (oops, sorry, got carried away...)
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Brethil
Half-elven
Mar 22 2013, 12:42pm
Post #24 of 24
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Sorry Kiwifan, didn't see this right away or I would have leaped to answer you!
I have noted the chest hair, very fine (indeed) in several shots where the blue cloth shirt neckline open up. We had some pics posted a while ago of RA in other roles, completely without chest hair at all, so presumably those were wax jobs done for the roles, because the natural state of things seems to be fine dark brown. Very right for the role, very much Dwarven, I think, cannot see a non-furry Dwarf King, uh-uh. No metrosexuality in Erebor!
As for texture - well, one can only speculate - I think the best purely scientific inquiries would require one's cheek to rest there for a good hour or so, in front of a roaring Erebor fire with the cognac at hand....do you agree?
Hell hath no fury like a Dragon who is missing a cup.
(This post was edited by Brethil on Mar 22 2013, 12:46pm)
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