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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Why isn't The History of the Hobbit/ The Art of the Hobbit listed with Tolkien's other work in the list of Tolkien's work found at the start of the other books?

malickfan
Gondor

Mar 12 2013, 3:05pm

Post #1 of 10 (355 views)
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Why isn't The History of the Hobbit/ The Art of the Hobbit listed with Tolkien's other work in the list of Tolkien's work found at the start of the other books? Can't Post

Both are authorised by the Tolkien Estate and both actually contain his writing/images, but the History of the Hobbit (2007) isn't listed in my 2009 edition of The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrun (I have the 2011 edition of the H.O.T.H and it dosen't even have the list of the other books) , and whilst browsing a local book shop the other day I happened across the new paperback edition of The Legend Of Sigurd and Gudrun (2012), the Fall of Arthur was listed even though it isn't out yet!, but The Art of the Hobbit (2012) wasn't.

I live in the UK so I'm not sure about other Countries editions-the H.O.T.H was an American book so could it be a copyright thing?

Not the most exciting of enquiries I know, but this has confused me for a while. Can someone clear this up?

‘As they came to the gates Cirdan the Shipwright came forth to greet them. Very tall he was, and his beard was long, and we was grey and old, save that his eyes were keen as stars; and he looked at them and bowed, and said ‘All is now ready.’

Perhaps the most fascinating Individual in Middle Earth



dormouse
Half-elven


Mar 12 2013, 7:09pm

Post #2 of 10 (195 views)
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Because the History of the Hobbit... [In reply to] Can't Post

... and the Art of the Hobbit aren't by Tolkien. I think it's really that simple.

Both books about his work and contain work by him, but the author of the History is identified as John Rateliff, and Hammond and Scull are identified as the authors of the Art of the Hobbit, on the copyright pages of the respective books. So the books are about his work but by them. The other books you've mentioned are by Tolkien, or, certainly in the case of Sigurd and Gudrun by both Tolkiens, JRR and Christopher. It's a question of authorship - does that make sense?


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Mar 13 2013, 12:54am

Post #3 of 10 (162 views)
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What dormouse said... [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien did not actually author either work, but was instead the subject of the works.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


geordie
Tol Eressea

Mar 13 2013, 1:28pm

Post #4 of 10 (182 views)
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I remember.. [In reply to] Can't Post

someone once took Wayne Hammond to task for not including Tolkien and Gordon's edition of Sir Gawain and the Green knight in section A of his bibliography of Tolkien - that is, 'Works by Tolkien'. SGGK is not by Tolkien; it's by an anonymous medieval author.

Smile


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Mar 13 2013, 3:33pm

Post #5 of 10 (162 views)
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Hammond's critic raised a valid point... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
someone once took Wayne Hammond to task for not including Tolkien and Gordon's edition of Sir Gawain and the Green knight in section A of his bibliography of Tolkien - that is, 'Works by Tolkien'. SGGK is not by Tolkien; it's by an anonymous medieval author.

Smile



Tolkien could be identified as one of the translators of the work, even though he was not the original author--much as a person can be recognized as an editor of an anthology.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


geordie
Tol Eressea

Mar 13 2013, 5:53pm

Post #6 of 10 (146 views)
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I don't think so - [In reply to] Can't Post

- Tolkien and Gordon's edition of Sir Gawain is not a translation. And as I said earlier; Tolkien is not the author of the work.


(This post was edited by geordie on Mar 13 2013, 5:54pm)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Mar 13 2013, 6:09pm

Post #7 of 10 (133 views)
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So... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
- Tolkien and Gordon's edition of Sir Gawain is not a translation. And as I said earlier; Tolkien is not the author of the work.



What was Tolkien's contribution then? He and E.V. Gordon seem to be credited as editors, which would also be a valid credential.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Mar 13 2013, 6:14pm)


Findegil
The Shire

Mar 16 2013, 12:13pm

Post #8 of 10 (91 views)
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Tolkien was indeed an editor [In reply to] Can't Post

with Gordon of the 1925 Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and co-author of the apparatus. I chose, however, to separate (in Section B of the Bibliography) works edited, translated, or with a contribution by Tolkien from (in Section A) works for which he was the principal author. Partly this was for convenience, partly to distinguish types of writing, partly because it's a common convention in author bibliographies.

Wayne


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Mar 16 2013, 2:00pm

Post #9 of 10 (87 views)
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It is perfectly valid to separate editorial work from authorship [In reply to] Can't Post

My point is that it is also common practice to include "works edited by" as part of a bibliography. Certtainly a list of the books by Harlan Ellison (for example) would not be complete if it ommitted the Dangerous Visions anthologies.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Findegil
The Shire

Mar 16 2013, 6:08pm

Post #10 of 10 (146 views)
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You may combine the two [In reply to] Can't Post

but in this sort of work (a descriptive bibliography, i.e. not a mere list, of a 20th-century author) it's common not to. There's no one right way.

Wayne

 
 

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