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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Kili and Moria

Cirashala
Grey Havens


Mar 11 2013, 3:03am

Post #1 of 24 (2516 views)
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Kili and Moria Can't Post

So I came across this picture while looking up screencaps for the two dwarf princes:

http://s51.radikal.ru/.../35/d871826adfa7.jpg

I happened to notice on the Kili side that Aidan Turner mentioned that Kili wishes to reclaim Moria.

So is there going to be a conversation then where Balin expresses interest and Kili jumps on board? Or is it possible that the ill fated Moria venture was originally Kili's idea? Or, heaven forbid, is PJ going to be as (dare I say it) stupid as to have Kili survive the BO5A just to die 30 years later in Moria with Balin????

Wow, Balin, Ori and Oin all perish in Moria, and if PJ somehow makes Kili do so as well, well darn it that scene in FOTR just got a million times sadder for me! I haven't watched FOTR since I saw the Hobbit for fear of bawling at that scene, and now this????

I sincerely hope this is merely just a camp side conversation and PJ isn't going to break canon this much!

Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm

(This post was edited by Ataahua on Mar 11 2013, 4:54am)


marillaraina
Rohan

Mar 11 2013, 3:18am

Post #2 of 24 (1709 views)
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No [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Aidan just misspoke and meant Erebor.


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Mar 11 2013, 3:41am

Post #3 of 24 (1691 views)
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gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope it was a language tangulation....

Go outside and play...


Dwarf Cupcake
The Shire


Mar 11 2013, 5:25am

Post #4 of 24 (1638 views)
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Breathe! [In reply to] Can't Post

Think a minute before you fly into a tizzy. Smile Kili isn't PLANNING on dying at the Battle of 5 Armies in Erebor. He's planning on being 3rd in line for the throne. So, what is he supposed to do? Go take back the other kingdom of the Dwarves! See, he's got plans. Battle of the 5 Armies just ruined them....*Sniff* Unsure *Goes off to cry now*

Not All those who wander are lost...


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 11 2013, 9:17am

Post #5 of 24 (1588 views)
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I don't think it is an error [In reply to] Can't Post

It does say that he wants to ultimately reclaim Moria. It doesn't mean he survivies, or actually goes off with Balin. It's probably in the back of all the Companies minds - if they succeed in Erebor, then they can go after Moria afterwards. We know that's Balin's ultimate plan. I bet we will get a scene in TABA (before the BO5A) where they agree to re-take Moria.


namarie
Rohan


Mar 11 2013, 10:19am

Post #6 of 24 (1559 views)
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I think he said by mistake [In reply to] Can't Post

Moria instead of Erebor too.


“The world is not in your books and maps. It's out there!”


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Mar 11 2013, 4:56pm

Post #7 of 24 (1440 views)
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tizzy [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not going into a tizzy, although it probably looks like it Wink

I know he isn't planning on dying, but I am curious as to how the conversation would go (if Aidan didn't misspeak at least).

Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm


Dwarf Cupcake
The Shire


Mar 12 2013, 4:12am

Post #8 of 24 (1280 views)
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Ok... [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink Just making sure... and I do agree, the conversation would be interesting to see. Maybe this is where Balin first gets the idea?

Not All those who wander are lost...


BoromirOfWinterfell
Rohan


Mar 12 2013, 2:02pm

Post #9 of 24 (1303 views)
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It seems Aidan Turner is putting us all in a flat spin. <book spoilers> [In reply to] Can't Post


I sincerely hope this is merely just a camp side conversation and PJ isn't going to break canon this much!


What with the whole Tauriel thing. I don't think he always means what he says seriously; just joking or fleeting mentions.


Quote
Or is it possible that the ill fated Moria venture was originally Kili's idea? Or, heaven forbid, is PJ going to be as (dare I say it) stupid as to have Kili survive the BO5A just to die 30 years later in Moria with Balin????


I doubt PJ will go that far. It will ruin the triple death scene at the battle. In some twisted way I'm looking forward to crying my eyes out when they die.
I watched FotR again.
Don't do it. You'll just be sad for days.

Very astute observation. I remember reading this but thought nothing of it. Wink

"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards because a refusal often offends." - Terry Pratchett

"You think you world is safe? It is an illusion. A comforting lie told to protect you. Enjoy these final moments of peace. For I have returned to have my vengeance. So, shall we begin? " - John Harrison/Khan/Sherlock/Smaug (Star Trek: Into Darkness)

(This post was edited by BoromirOfWinterfell on Mar 12 2013, 2:06pm)


Arannir
Valinor

Mar 12 2013, 2:13pm

Post #10 of 24 (1262 views)
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I think... [In reply to] Can't Post

... the possibility is higher that either Fili or Kili die BEFORE the Bot5A, so their deaths will not be totally overshadowed by Thorin's.

I hope they will stick to the book here very much, though - but after reading some general movie boards and blogs, I realized how many people "want" the deaths to set in earlier and think it would add to the tension and drama (although this might of course be done via some action and dying at Dol Guldur...) .

But moving the death of either of the two to Moria does not make any sense imho. If told, this will only be a small portion of the Epilogue of TABA, I'd imagine. And you already have characters of the company amongst those perishing in Moria. It wouldn't add anything to the characters of Fili or Kili to have an involvement with Moria, nor to the overall drama for the general audience (at least not the average movie-goers - and for the Tolkien fans it might be seen as a rather unnecessary change). So I do not see any reason why the film-makers would even consider doing that, since it would not add to the story on any level or for any cohorts of the audience.


(This post was edited by Arannir on Mar 12 2013, 2:20pm)


imin
Valinor


Mar 12 2013, 2:21pm

Post #11 of 24 (1262 views)
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If they were to be *spoilers* [In reply to] Can't Post

killed off earlier. When do you think that will happen?


(This post was edited by entmaiden on Mar 12 2013, 5:54pm)


Arannir
Valinor

Mar 12 2013, 3:00pm

Post #12 of 24 (1236 views)
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I seriously hope and think they won't. [In reply to] Can't Post

Just to make that clear again.


But IF I would say the only possible moment is Smaug leaving Erebor.

Assuming (and I know that many people disagree on that one) that DoS will end after the attack of the WC on Dol Guldur and with Smaug preparing to attack Laketown (with the potential last shot of the thrush vanishing into the darkness), I could see him attacking the Dwarves first while he sets the mountainside on fire.

It could serve as a rather emotional ending - with Sauron leaving Dol Guldur but with the realization of at least Galadriel and Gandalf that Middle-earth is looking into a dark future and Bilbo maybe sending out the thrush in the fading hope to rescue Laketown, while we have the company mourning the death of one of their members.


Again, I do not really want that. But I could see the script-writers thinking about such possibilities to create a powerful split between DoS and TABA (which will be crucial imho for the reception of part two), while I cannot think of a reason for them to add more dwarves to the Moria expedition that does not have any emotional weight for the biggest part of the audience.


(This post was edited by Arannir on Mar 12 2013, 3:00pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 12 2013, 3:04pm

Post #13 of 24 (1242 views)
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Instead of it being Fili or Kili... [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the other Dwarves could be seriously injured - maybe one of them gets singed from Smaug's fire. It would be nice for the threat to "seem" real. I hope Gandalf still breaks his arm, for instance.


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Mar 13 2013, 3:06am

Post #14 of 24 (1197 views)
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looking forward to crying my eyes out... [In reply to] Can't Post

I saw so much awesome fanart on tumblr and elsewhere, all clearly created by fangirls like me who are going to go in with a crate of Kleenex... that I created two , count'em, two pinterest boards just for those three...

http://pinterest.com/swordwhale/oakenshields-a-celebration-of-fictional-life/

http://pinterest.com/swordwhale/oakenshields-2-the-final-chapter/

Go outside and play...


GloryBox
Bree


Mar 13 2013, 5:15am

Post #15 of 24 (1168 views)
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Great links! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for a look at some impressive art work. Very moving. Also love the Shepard Fairey-style poster of the entire Company. And the half-of-the-face style portraits (don't quite know how to describe them)!

...one morning long ago in the quiet of the world, when there was less noise and more green... The Hobbit

(This post was edited by GloryBox on Mar 13 2013, 5:21am)


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Mar 13 2013, 8:30am

Post #16 of 24 (1152 views)
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fanart (with spoilers) [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the links to the original artists have been preserved pretty well. I want to make sure they get credit. there's a lot of great professional level stuff out there.

Only a few of these are mine (the ones labelled swordwhale).

I found a number of very good pieces dealing with the demise of Our Heroes, some were a bit intense, and garnered their own board.

Go outside and play...


Arannir
Valinor

Mar 13 2013, 8:36am

Post #17 of 24 (1159 views)
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I guess Kili/Fili are the new "slash fanart" favourites? [In reply to] Can't Post

I realized the existence of this kind of fanart/fanfiction when Elijah Wood was once shown a rather obscene picture of Frodo/Sam... Crazy


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Mar 13 2013, 8:48am

Post #18 of 24 (1150 views)
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ermahgherd... [In reply to] Can't Post

oh nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
it's not just the bros
it's everybody...
all of 'em
I just scroll really really fast through tumblr sometimes....
ack...
and then there's Smauglock...
they've taken the Bilbo/Watson, Sherlock/Smaug thing and run with it...
I really hope the actors have a large sense of humor.

I heard someone on National Public Radio talking about fair use, and fanfic... when the characters go on the page, they begin to live in other people's hearts as well as the author's... and there isn't much you can do about how someone interprets them.

Go outside and play...


BoromirOfWinterfell
Rohan


Mar 13 2013, 12:25pm

Post #19 of 24 (1140 views)
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I cry [In reply to] Can't Post

Every time I read the book. That's seven seemingly random outbursts of weeping, usually at school where I finish it.

I ADORE these! I've got this whole folder with Hobbit fan art, but most of it is of Fili, Kili and Thorin. These just make everything more awesome.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards because a refusal often offends." - Terry Pratchett

"You think you world is safe? It is an illusion. A comforting lie told to protect you. Enjoy these final moments of peace. For I have returned to have my vengeance. So, shall we begin? " - John Harrison/Khan/Sherlock/Smaug (Star Trek: Into Darkness)


Angharad73
Rohan


Mar 13 2013, 12:50pm

Post #20 of 24 (1147 views)
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Oh no... [In reply to] Can't Post

Why do I always have to look? I should have known better... Now I'm going to be all upset again. It's going to be *so* hard to watch those three die... Unsure

But thank you for posting these links!


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Mar 13 2013, 5:01pm

Post #21 of 24 (1150 views)
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the sad thing is... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I really really care now.

(Where's my crate of Kleenex)

It's PJ's fault... and all those lovely actors.

I read LOTR in 1978, one guy dies, and it's not one I particularly like. (Yeah, I was holding my breath through the whole book going, Leggyleggylegolas don't you die....). End of story; mostly everyone lives more or less happily ever after or sails west or something.

I read Hobbit about the same time. OK, that's nice. It's Tolkien. On to LOTR again: read, art, film, playing with costumes and swords and bows and stuffs, fanart, fanfic, shanghaiing horse into working bridleless, fanart, TOR.N... blah blah blah.

Hobbit film. Me: Oh, that's very nice! More Middle Earth!

Pre-production stills...

me...

me...

OMG WHO ARE THESE AWESOME CHARACTERS?!?!?

Oh, wait, I met them before...

NO, I DIDN'T! THESE ARE NOT THE DWARVES I'M LOOKING FOR... THEY'RE BETTER!

me: wait.... wait... don't some of them die?????

(rustle rustle, book, rustle rustle...)

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!

I'm actually expecting Peter Jackson, Richard Armitage, Aidan Turner and Dean O'Gorman to give these characters their due after 75 years...

Go outside and play...


Riven Delve
Grey Havens


Mar 13 2013, 5:24pm

Post #22 of 24 (1148 views)
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I'm with you! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
... I really really care now.

(Where's my crate of Kleenex)

It's PJ's fault... and all those lovely actors.

I read LOTR in 1978, one guy dies, and it's not one I particularly like. (Yeah, I was holding my breath through the whole book going, Leggyleggylegolas don't you die....). End of story; mostly everyone lives more or less happily ever after or sails west or something.

I read Hobbit about the same time. OK, that's nice. It's Tolkien. On to LOTR again: read, art, film, playing with costumes and swords and bows and stuffs, fanart, fanfic, shanghaiing horse into working bridleless, fanart, TOR.N... blah blah blah.

Hobbit film. Me: Oh, that's very nice! More Middle Earth!

Pre-production stills...

Oh, wait, I met them before...

NO, I DIDN'T! THESE ARE NOT THE DWARVES I'M LOOKING FOR... THEY'RE BETTER!


I'm actually expecting Peter Jackson, Richard Armitage, Aidan Turner and Dean O'Gorman to give these characters their due after 75 years...



I had much the same reaction after reading The Hobbit as a kid. Kind of "meh." Didn't like Thorin, didn't care if he died, kinda wished young Fili and Kili had lived instead of Bilbo. (I know, that was bad. Evil) Moved on the LOTR, and didn't pick up The Hobbit again until thirty years later...after PJ made me love those darn dwarves!!!! (And Bilbo too. See, I'm good now. Angelic)

I am really counting on PJ to hold up his end of the bargain: you made me love them, now do them justice, sir, to the very end...


"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment


marillaraina
Rohan

Mar 15 2013, 2:14am

Post #23 of 24 (1088 views)
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Biggest concern [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I am really counting on PJ to hold up his end of the bargain: you made me love them, now do them justice, sir, to the very end...


So my biggest concern. He's made us love them, he better damn well break my heart into a million pieces when he kills them. (But try to do it without an excess of slow motion, I realize that's asking a lot of PJ and probably an impossible request, but I'd really appreciate it:))

Don't care if it sounds sadistic, in context I think it's only right. :)


Riven Delve
Grey Havens


Mar 15 2013, 8:57pm

Post #24 of 24 (1090 views)
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If Boromir's death is anything to go by, [In reply to] Can't Post

I honestly think we are in good hands for the demise of the royal family. I thought the slow-mo with Boromir was fine, but you're right--too much would diminish the effect. (But I wouldn't object to a little.) (Okay, who am I kidding? I'll be crying too much to do any objecting. Unsure)


In Reply To

Quote
I am really counting on PJ to hold up his end of the bargain: you made me love them, now do them justice, sir, to the very end...


So my biggest concern. He's made us love them, he better damn well break my heart into a million pieces when he kills them. (But try to do it without an excess of slow motion, I realize that's asking a lot of PJ and probably an impossible request, but I'd really appreciate it:))

Don't care if it sounds sadistic, in context I think it's only right. :)



"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment

 
 

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