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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
TH : An Expected Journey by Phil Dragash
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Mar 10 2013, 12:26am

Post #76 of 99 (225 views)
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What I like [In reply to] Can't Post

What I like is that it's very easy to cover something over with heavy dialogue to make up for the actual "acting" going on in the scene. RA is able to convey a lot just with his eyes and face. The scene with Bilbo where Bilbo tells Thorin why he came back (before Out of the Frying Pan) really showed this well. As Bilbo spoke about missing his armchair, and Bag End, and his books, we see the acknowledgement in RA's eyes. When Freeman finishes delivering those lines, which he does so well. RA simply casts his eyes down quickly, and we know he acknowledges and understands Bilbo's reason for return.

That is one of the great scenes in the movie to me right there. Freeman's almost effortless delivery and RA's subtle look of acknowledgement. Not many actors can pull that off. Armitage is one of them. He's terrific.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 10 2013, 12:29am

Post #77 of 99 (200 views)
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LOL [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh


OH if only, if only! Sly One can dream...

Angelic


But, perhaps Tarantino will be one of the chosen directors for one of the next following SWs. Space battles set to the tunes of the groovy 70's, lightsaber battles in which every creature spills a barrel of blood, aldeeran spece cargo captains, tattone merchants and and kashik smugglers all around a dinner table in Mos Eisley arguing about wether or not to tip the green skinned club dancers-waitresses...

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 10 2013, 12:36am

Post #78 of 99 (197 views)
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As usual I agree Ham Sammy [In reply to] Can't Post

I love the bit at the end, when he sees the thrush. His eyes widen, and brighten - like hope dawning.


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Mar 10 2013, 12:46am

Post #79 of 99 (197 views)
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Absolutely Brethil [In reply to] Can't Post

I love that too. It's so great there seeing Thorin smiling like that, hope totally showing in his eyes. (little does he know what's go come..and neither obviously does the clueless Hobbit ;) )

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 10 2013, 12:54am

Post #80 of 99 (192 views)
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So true!! NEVER say the worst is behind! [In reply to] Can't Post

It's an actual true smile, too. I like how he played walking up the ridge. Looks like he is nursing some broken ribs too.

Like at work we never say the [quiet] word - like inviting disaster!

and MF is just so perfect.


(This post was edited by Brethil on Mar 10 2013, 12:56am)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 10 2013, 1:02am

Post #81 of 99 (197 views)
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Dont worry magpie [In reply to] Can't Post

why would i discard any claim or comment made by someone just because that somenoe also likes to fangirl, be geeky and have fun?

Not at all. Smile

Perhaps i should have used a wink wink at the end of that sentence to make it clear, but my deliberate use of a mid sentence " hum" and the description of boisterous enthusiasm over noses and what not was quite humorous for me and it was written as a good humoured comment.

As to the workings of the mind of a TORN fangirl, i know a few, so i am not completely ignorant, but i am prepared to enter the unkown. Shocked

As to Armitage, Ralph Fiennes is a well known actor who is usually very reserved, understated, poised, laconic almost but he conveys so much with this acting. I find nothing similar with Armitage's Thorin.


Shirehorse : Hi.

"the way a small number of posters trash our ideas in general if we dare to say that we like an actor"

I could say the same thing, couldnt i ? Only replace the like for dislike. I have been insulted by some people just because of my views ...I ignore it, but i would like to say that I, on the other hand, didnt insult a soul because of their views on Armitage or AUJ.

Anyway, i hope it doenst happen to you or anybody because it is ludicrous and rude.

"This is what Lusitano said on a thread further down when he accused us of going beyond obsession:

"To me it puts me off...i dont obsess about beautifull actresses so this whole fangirl squeeeee and OMG sighing over someone one doenst know...seems exotic to me. I havent done that since i was a teenager, and i do believe the cleavage was more generous."

We are diminished as thinking human beings and are compared with silly teenagers. At least we admire more about RA than his cleavage. "


You misinterpret my words. That thread was a humorous thread.
Humorous, tongue in cheek, jolly comments were made. It was all in good fun.

No accusations were made and the poster to whom i used the obsession coment understood that it was all about having a laugh and teasing ...

In your quoting of my words you removed the tongues and the cheeky looks, which were there for a reason.
Also you attribute some intention of wanting to diminish those posters as human beings ...


I think Mordor is thaaaat way.....


Have a good night. Smile

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Mar 10 2013, 1:02am

Post #82 of 99 (193 views)
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I think Armitage did the best he could [In reply to] Can't Post

with what he was given to work with. I do however don't think his dialogue was particularly strong or impressive but that's not his fault. I will say he sold it MOST of the time but not all the time for me. Besides that I think it could have been much worse, his performance could have been wooden and monotone like Orlando bloom as Legolas. I personally wish they had made Thorin a bit older and probably did go with Armitage just as much for his sex appeal, as well as his performance. Not that that is a bad thing for ladies wanting some eye candy, but for the story, it detracts from Tolkien's point of making an older Thorin wanting to reclaim Erobor before he dies.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 10 2013, 1:17am

Post #83 of 99 (182 views)
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He did the best he could [In reply to] Can't Post

and i forever gratefull for his unique rendition of misty mountains!

But, his ridiculously short beard- i realise i dislike it even more after seeing the film, a proper dwarflord like Thorin should have a longer beard- some of his really cheesy lines and forced dialogue, the bad directing and writing from the screenwriters with regards to his relationship with Bilbo and ultimately, his one noted, uncharismatic performance, ruined Thorin for me.

He still looks majestic sometimes, he has a good moment here and there but ...

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Old Toby
Gondor


Mar 10 2013, 3:19am

Post #84 of 99 (162 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

and I'm glad you got what I meant and didn't take personal offense, because none was intended. And I agree that no one should feel uncomfortable about expressing their views just because they happen to be unpopular or feel that they are in the minority, as long as it doesn't cause others harm or put them at risk. That's what free speech is all about, eh?

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Old Toby
Gondor


Mar 10 2013, 3:24am

Post #85 of 99 (168 views)
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RA has cleavage? [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh. I guess I was too busy admiring his hair to notice! Wink

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Arannir
Valinor

Mar 10 2013, 11:38am

Post #86 of 99 (138 views)
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Really? [In reply to] Can't Post

I found those action sequences actually to be neatly intercut with Bilbo finding his courage in the tunnels with Gollum and deciding to spare his life... that is actually what was most important to me for them to get right, since it is such an important link to LotR and the overall themes of merci.

But I guess just shows how different views can be... but somehow I never felt like just shutting my brain down.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Mar 10 2013, 7:43pm

Post #87 of 99 (117 views)
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I found [In reply to] Can't Post

what Jackson did to the film dumbing down what Tolkien wrote. He lacked the faith in viewers to get something with more depth without going OTT with flashy effects and sweeping camera moves to accent his new frame rate and 3D technology. To me he opted for spectacle and flashy things to get peoples attention instead of telling a compelling story to keep them pulled into it. I felt Bilbo's mercy was an after thought, the look on his face, to me anyways, was as if he were thinking about Gandalf's words, when he was given Sting. Bilbo from the book wanted adventure ultimately, wanted to carry a sword, willingly found sting, and found his courage in the spiders and flies sequence. In the film we have Gandalf finding sting, basically forcing it on Bilbo, telling him that using a sword also is about knowing "when NOT to take a life" and next thing we know we have Bilbo sword fighting goblins, killing a warg, running into a fight with Azog, he surely can not win, swinging sting around. Nothing like the book IMO and not nearly as entertaining to me. I know Jackson wanted to try and attract people who are non Tolkien fans into the film but he never gave them a chance to like what Tolkien did to start with.


Arannir
Valinor

Mar 10 2013, 7:59pm

Post #88 of 99 (116 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

... we have a complete different interpretation of what PJ did or didn't do - at least for me there was not much depth destroyed, really.

And I certainly didn't feel Bilbo's decision not to kill Gollum was forced on him in any way. Yes, he finds his courage earlier which probably happened due to the change into three movies. I did not mind that... unless they repeat that in the spider's sequence.

But maybe this is all because I am not a major fan of TH as a book.

So I guess we can agree to disagree Smile


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 10 2013, 8:38pm

Post #89 of 99 (106 views)
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Depth not destroyed [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm with you. I feel that outside of a couple changes Jackson actually added to the greatness that Tolkien created. He didn't create something better for anyone that might get mad. He just added more to something already great (if that makes sense). I like you also don't feel like not killing Gollum was forced on him and that he had the choice to do it or not. He just remembered the advice of some wise council he got from Gandalf. You could also see the pity he felt for Gollum which Gandalf lets Frodo know may control the fate of Middle-earth during The Lord of the Rings.

I love the book. Maybe not as much as The Lord of the Rings but for me it kept much of the heart and feel of The Hobbit and I love the movie for that.



Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Mar 10 2013, 8:41pm

Post #90 of 99 (105 views)
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probably the case [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
But maybe this is all because I am not a major fan of TH as a book.

I personally am a fan of the book and have been ever since first reading it over 35 years ago, reading it every year at least once or twice. I found the 2 film and book to be totally different stories. All the charm of the book was sucked out of it after Baggend and the story became more about an amusement park ride instead of the story Tolkien wrote.

People have different opinions and I can respect someone liking the film just as much as they can hopefully respect that I do not like the majority of it.

When Jackson stuck to the book the film IMO was fantastic when he deviated I thought it was just tasteless typical Hollywood spectacle. I agree we can disagree, not everyone has the same tastes Wink



Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Mar 10 2013, 8:52pm

Post #91 of 99 (117 views)
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But at the time of the Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

there was nothing known about the ring or that Bilbo would even find it. The ring was thought lost, its whereabouts unknown..So to show stuff like that in the time of the Hobbit and Bilbo's adventure, using such obvious foreshadowing this early, is just pointless. At the time Frodo was making the journey the ring was known, Sauron had revealed himself, they knew middle earth was becoming a lot more dangerous place. The time during the Hobbit was a much more innocent time and should have reflected that. Not having everything bad in the world all the sudden happening as soon as they set out on this adventure. And Gandalf having to tell Bilbo what he did. That should have been Bilbo's decision without council, since nobody knew what would happen during this adventure. They might have made it all the way to Laketown without incidence for all they knew. The first warg attack didn't happen till after that, if it were before I might feel differently but it just seemed pointless and them rehashing dialogue from LOTR just so fans could hear something familiar to feel good about.


Arannir
Valinor

Mar 10 2013, 8:55pm

Post #92 of 99 (113 views)
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Although... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I have a hard time accepting the label "tasteless Hollywood spectacle" for this movie, you are absolutely right on taste and of course that opinion of yours has my full respect.

I mean, we do not even differ in opinions that the major changes are there (as many argue back and forth when it comes to LotR changes) - just our reaction to those differ as one might expect.


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 10 2013, 9:09pm

Post #93 of 99 (110 views)
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The Ring [In reply to] Can't Post

The show stuff like what? Him finding the ring? It slipping on his finger? They did foreshadow that this item could have impact I suppose but it was light at best and they sure as heck did not say anything that it would be. I didn't feel that they did anything bad with the Riddles in the Dark sequence or handling of the Ring. The time in the book is a bit light but we know it wasn't as light as the main book was. I personally have no problem with them adding the stuff showing the world was starting to head to a dark place but for me the movie still has plenty of the light I was looking for. I didn't feel anything they used in bringing The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings closer together was an issue. I'm sorry you don't feel that way but I can't agree at all.



Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Mar 10 2013, 11:01pm

Post #94 of 99 (101 views)
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To me anyways [In reply to] Can't Post

it just felt like they were trying too hard to make Bilbo's ring, which should have merely been a trinket and nothing more, the "one ring". Something that I feel they overplayed esp since they felt the need to do the whole ring falling perfectly onto Bilbo's finger basically copying the scene with Frodo in Bree. That and stuff like Bilbo basically watching the ring jump out of Gollum's clothing onto the ground in Slow motion. Something that was completely unnecessary, unlike the original scene in FOTR where Bilbo actually finds it similar to the book. Where he simply shoves it in his pocket without really drawing attention to it as anything other than a ring. Why change a scene like that unless your trying to make the ring into something more than it really was at the time of the Hobbit to foreshadow what it becomes? That's the only logical explanation in my mind. They were making a big deal of the ring because they wanted that obvious connection to LOTR.

As for Riddles in the dark there were plenty of things they could have done that would have worked better. For starters having Gollum going back to his island to get the ring, Then putting 2 and 2 together about Bilbo having the ring, Then thinking Bilbo knew the way out, then Gollum heading for the exit with Bilbo following him. Because Bilbo was truly lost. In Jackson's version we get Gollum getting mad chasing Bilbo, with Bilbo running around blindly chased by Gollum and he just happens to stumble upon the exit, trips the ring magically drops perfectly onto his finger, Gollum can't find him , thinks he got away. Then Bilbo jumps over him to rejoin the dwarfs...There is no opportunity to utilize the one connection to the "one ring". By it revealing Bilbo in the sunlight to the Goblins guarding the exit where he should have lost his buttons AFTER following Gollum there. Other than them overplaying the Gollum split personalities I felt Riddles wasn't too bad except for the changes I mentioned. But it could have been better had they went with the book version IMO


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 10 2013, 11:29pm

Post #95 of 99 (94 views)
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Different strokes for different folks [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess.

I guess that some viewers like yourself could come to that but I don't feel that was the case at all. Now, I could have done without the ring falling on his finger part as I think it would have worked even better without that moment. I didn't have a problem with seeing the ring fall out of Gollum's pocket that to me worked fairly well to be hoenst. I have no problem with the foreshadowing to be honest and giving the ring something a bit more than it does in the book. The characters of the movie don't know that its nothing more than a trinket (they will and right now they know nothing). That's fine they tied it to The Lord of the Rings for me. I really have no issues with that at all.

I'm sure they could have tweaked it some but as a whole I thought the scene was damn near perfect. It also for me felt very much ripped straight from the pages with the emotion, feeling, the way it all worked, etc. I would have liked the chase scene to work out with the Goblins at the gate but other than that I'm cool with what we got there. I loved the Gollum split personality myself and think it adds to the character. Could it have been a bit better? Sure. It was pretty darn good from where I sat.



Old Toby
Gondor


Mar 10 2013, 11:46pm

Post #96 of 99 (90 views)
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Yup, I'm with ya [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved this entire scene just the way it is and I didn't think the goblins chasing Bilbo at the end was crucial and would have added more screen time. If the ring hadn't fallen on his finger, how would we, the audience, know he had it on and why would he have put it on in the first place? Since this is a visual medium, we have to see what is happening, or be told what is happening (which is a bore and not the reason we go to films).

And I too love the way Andy Serkis plays Gollum, particularly with the split personality which I find hilarious! He's even better than in the LOTR films; he has Gollum down pat! Why this man hasn't been awarded anything for his ground-breaking work in motion capture is beyond me.

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 11 2013, 12:09am

Post #97 of 99 (87 views)
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Gollum [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, I loved the sequence myself. I could have seen them go with him just putting it on hoping it could help him get out of the situation he was in if they went away from the book. Otherwise maybe a little more exact like the book had it.

Andy Serkis is perfect IMO. He really does bring Gollum to life in a way I don't think anyone else could possibly do. I do think he should be recognized for the work he has put into not only Gollum but this kind of roll.



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 11 2013, 3:14pm

Post #98 of 99 (64 views)
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Oh dear, oh dear. [In reply to] Can't Post

Lol

In Reply To
Laugh


OH if only, if only! Sly One can dream...

Angelic


But, perhaps Tarantino will be one of the chosen directors for one of the next following SWs. Space battles set to the tunes of the groovy 70's, lightsaber battles in which every creature spills a barrel of blood, aldeeran spece cargo captains, tattone merchants and and kashik smugglers all around a dinner table in Mos Eisley arguing about wether or not to tip the green skinned club dancers-waitresses...


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Elenorflower
Gondor


Mar 11 2013, 6:18pm

Post #99 of 99 (104 views)
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I like Richard Armitage [In reply to] Can't Post

but not as Thorin. Because he is Guy-Candy and stands around staring into the distance and brooding on cliff-tops, a lot of people are going to have their hormones telling them whether he is actually an effective Thorin or not.
A lot of people wont look past the hunkyness. and thats fair enough, (it will probably be me Blush) but I really didnt get much sense of Thorins character from the film, his eyes were quite expressive at times but he seemed to rely on his physical presence rather than give us some meat about what he was actualy like as a person. But I suppose this is just part of the Aragornization process.

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