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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Yazneg/Azog Theory... a late addition?

Arandir
Gondor


Mar 4 2013, 8:06pm

Post #1 of 10 (746 views)
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The Yazneg/Azog Theory... a late addition? Can't Post

A while back, I read somewhere on these forums that Azog was a late addition in AUJ ... hence the "rushed" feeling in some of the scenes. Can anyone confirm this?
I guess the clues seem to indicate that this was the case - considering that in calendars, official guides and visual companions there's absolutely no reference to him (but rather to Bolg).

Now, just a few weeks ago, we were treated to a behind the scenes look at the VFX work done on the film. It is clear by now that at least Azog's appearance DID indeed change at the last minute when during the making of feature we can clearly see the orc known as Yazneg, battling against Thorin - (with WETA later replacing him with a mo-capped Manu Bennett).
This got me thinking ... could it possibly be that most of the scenes featuring Yazneg, were actually the way Azog was meant to make his introduction in AUJ? With the exact same dialogue and all?

If we go back right after the scene of the flashback at Azanulbizar, we see Yazneg and his scouts finding the "Dwarf-scum" and that they will be informing the "Master". The first time I saw that at the cinema, I thought it was some reference to Sauron. However, considering the last minute Azog-appearance change, could that scene have originally been presented as Azog himself (post-flashback) witnessing the dwarves and reporting to the Master?

And what if the "Master" was an initial reference to one of the Nazgul?

Think about it ... right after Yazneg leads the attack unto the Company and are repelled by the Elven archers, the orc reports back to his "Master" at Weathertop. Could it be that previously, PJ's original intention (before Azog's appearance-change) was to have Azog (now Yazeng) report to the Nazgul (perhaps the Witch-King)?

It would fit in well with the following scenes of the White Council and the revelation that what its members are discussing is actually the Ringwraith Azog just a few scenes earlier reported to ... (obviously the Weathertop scene were Yazneg meet's his end would have had to be changed later on to fit in with the alterations)

As a side note (though not completely):
I also always felt that the final scene were the company is attacked in the pine forest, Azog and his group seems to have been added later in the picture ... I'm not sure why but it might boil down to three reasons:

1) I was eagerly expecting a "Warg Meeting" before Thorin and Co. are discovered

2) Bilbo's sword Sting fails to glow many times during the warg attack

3) There seems to be quite a big chunk between Azog ordering the attack on the Company and when he finally comes within view of Thorin

All these led me to believe that somehow, the Warg Meeting was cut and a new Azog scene pasted before the Warg attack - hence the slight discrepancies ...

Not sure how this last point fits in with the whole topic, but thought I'd write it down just the same!Laugh

'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' Review


Escapist
Gondor


Mar 4 2013, 8:22pm

Post #2 of 10 (366 views)
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Your Azog theory makes sense. [In reply to] Can't Post

I would say that the movies were probably better with him than without him. In an ideal world he would get the same attention as the rest of the movie ... but people do what they can, as always.


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Mar 4 2013, 8:28pm

Post #3 of 10 (403 views)
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Check out the AUJ Movie Storybook... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't have this, but I posted a while back that one of my kids flicked through it in a bookstore and pointed out that the write-up for the final tree-hanging scene has no menton of Azog whatsoever, only refers to "the leader of the warg-riders" or something generic like that, and has a photo of Yazneg accompanying the storyline description. Can anyone on the boards who has the publication confirm that? It would be interesting to know if there is any description of the Weathertop scene as well...


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort






Snatcher
The Shire

Mar 4 2013, 8:33pm

Post #4 of 10 (344 views)
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Here is a link to the thread you're referring to. [In reply to] Can't Post

http://newboards.theonering.net/...orum.cgi?post=564051

Azog's party wasn't added late to the game, because the LEGO set for the Out Of The Frying-Pan sequence features Yazneg (the "old Azog" on the White warg), which means even before Yazneg became Azog, Azog (who was at the time Yazneg) was meant to be there during that sequence. Know what I mean? Tongue


Skaan
Lorien


Mar 4 2013, 8:37pm

Post #5 of 10 (378 views)
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Azog was always planned [In reply to] Can't Post

If i remember right, they've always planned to include Azog into the movie. Azog's original design looked like Yazneg's current design, but PJ wanted him to stand out more from the other orcs, so they changed his design to the current one (while the old design is now used by Yazneg) I'm guessing this is where most of the confusion comes from.


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Mar 4 2013, 8:41pm

Post #6 of 10 (372 views)
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Azog was always going to be in the movie up to a point... [In reply to] Can't Post

we know this because of Conan Steven's casting as Azog initially. But that could simply have been for the Azanulbizar flashback, to flesh out both Thorin and Bolg's back stories. The reason I'm querying the Movie Storybook write-up is because it indicates that the Thorin-Azog face-off at the end of the film was a late addition, with only an un-named (in this publication) Yazneg character the main antagonist... interesting that this made it to publication without having the changes made.


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort






Lio
Lorien


Mar 5 2013, 2:55am

Post #7 of 10 (227 views)
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From the AUJ Movie Storybook [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a copy of the AUJ Movie Storybook on hand, and here's what it has to say about the scene (page 44):

Perched among the leaves, Bilbo and his friends look on helplessly as a new, even deadlier enemy arrives. Sitting astride an enormous Warg, the hideous Orc chieftain rides into view. With one order from the Orc, the Wargs attack.

There is a photo of an Orc on the page, but it's neither Azog or Yazneg. I think it's Fimbul, as it's essentially the same still as this:

Fimbul the Hunter

There is no mention of the Weathertop scene, but a lot of things are skipped or compressed. For example, Radagast's Mirkwood and Dol Guldur scenes are not described, just summarized by single sentence indicating that he has discovered a "terrible sickness" in the forest. (Nooo! How can you leave out Sebastian?!) Also, the Warg chase is covered, but not Radagast's role in it. (Nooo! How can you leave out the bunny sled?!)

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Mar 5 2013, 7:42am

Post #8 of 10 (149 views)
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Ah, right...Thanks for that! [In reply to] Can't Post

So it was Fimbul - well that explains things somewhat. They obviously originially filmed the "Fifteen Birds..." scene more or less as in the book, but then wrote in the Azog storyline in on top of it.


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort






Arandir
Gondor


Mar 5 2013, 8:05am

Post #9 of 10 (143 views)
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Many thanks to both of you ... [In reply to] Can't Post

this at least explains the Pine Wood forest scene a bit better in terms of how it was meant to be

'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' Review


Arandir
Gondor


Mar 5 2013, 8:12am

Post #10 of 10 (166 views)
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Cheers Snatcher // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' Review

 
 

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