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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"You made me love you, I didn't want to do it..."
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Riven Delve
Grey Havens


Mar 2 2013, 6:12pm

Post #26 of 42 (298 views)
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Boromir [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Haha, the Bombur moment is a tough one to catch, but worth it. Watch for it! Bombur and Bofur have such a great bro chemistry.
(It's hard to spot, RivenDelve, because you have to look AWAY from Thorin!)



That would explain why I never saw it. Blush


In Reply To

I actually resisted that tree scene until view 3...(if you can believe it! I can't, looking back)

Shocked





Quote
I said "cruel" because I know what the end will be, and as your original post says (so perfectly) I DID NOT want to care deeply about anyone but Bilbo (and Gandalf) who have no jeopardy! I let myself go right away with Dwalin, for example, and Bofur, both of whom who I just loved from the first, because (we don't in canon) I didn't feel like we will lose them. So that was fine. I have loved Tolkien's world for over 20 years, so certainly I was already massively vested in the story. But I never cared for a doomed charactar, except for Theoden; and his end hurts but feels...different than this.


I see, thanks. I definitely understand. I've been thinking that at least I'll have the comfort of the two previous movies' worth of material to go back over when the time comes.Unsure


Quote
Then there goes PJ and Co., pulling real people out of the text, and in particular crafting that scene of hopeless courage, honor, resolve......it looks amazing, feels amazing....dammit. I can't just intellectualize it. NOT FAIR!



Yes! They did it to us with Boromir... I was all ready to hate him, and then he went and said, "By the blood of our people are your lands kept safe." Wait--no--he can't be honorable and love his people, he's a bad g--- Too late. I'm a goner.


"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 2 2013, 7:42pm

Post #27 of 42 (281 views)
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True about Boromir [In reply to] Can't Post

  

Yes! They did it to us with Boromir... I was all ready to hate him, and then he went and said, "By the blood of our people are your lands kept safe." Wait--no--he can't be honorable and love his people, he's a bad g--- Too late. I'm a goner.


I rewind that moment when he runs up to save Merry and Pippin. He looks magnificent. And PJ did give Boromir so many moments of actually doing really nice things for the Fellowship - he holds back Gimli after Gandalf falls; he catches Frodo at the chasm. Then - as you say -gone....

Curious to know - how different will your reaction be to each loss, Boromir to Thorin?


(This post was edited by Brethil on Mar 2 2013, 7:44pm)


Marionette
Rohan


Mar 2 2013, 9:44pm

Post #28 of 42 (284 views)
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The movie is doing a great job explaining... [In reply to] Can't Post

the book better Smile

So far, it is that way. (But I have my concern about what is coming next)

It´s basically the same all about the dwarves (excluding the part taken from the appendices, or Azog)

But they are the same, Thorin is the same, even grumpier in the film, in the book he is a nicer dwarf, especially with Bilbo (Until the Arkenstone is involved between both) , he only changes his appearance just like Kili and Fili, he´s younger and different from book Thorin in that aspect.

Adding all the stuff with Azog, and the battle scenes, helps people to see the background of drama, revenge and heroism Thorin has and it´s not detailed in the book (but I think still it´s there, I saw it that way)

So, I am glad the film is explaining better some details.

I always loved all the dwarf-bunch, the film is doing a great job with all the dwarves in that aspect as well, for example Balin, he is having a better role in the film Heart.


"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"
Queen



Patty
Immortal


Mar 2 2013, 10:02pm

Post #29 of 42 (246 views)
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Excellent post! Stay with us!/ [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Permanent address: Into the West






Riven Delve
Grey Havens


Mar 3 2013, 12:20am

Post #30 of 42 (242 views)
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Love your avatar picture, Marionette [In reply to] Can't Post

I bet Fili and Kili were adorable as little kids. HeartEvil I've always wondered about Dis and her husband's backstory too.


"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment


Riven Delve
Grey Havens


Mar 3 2013, 12:32am

Post #31 of 42 (247 views)
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Yes, should be interesting (spoilers) [In reply to] Can't Post

They both do Very Bad Things (attempting to take the ring by force and attempting to throttle a hobbit) that sort of require poetic justice, but I'm betting Thorin's "punishment" will be way harder to take. First, because of the time and emotion invested (three movies as opposed to one), and second because of the Fili and Kili factor (grief to the third power! Unsure).

I'm also curious to see if PJ has some redeeming qualities for Thranduil and if those will sway us viewers--he's already preconditioned us to dislike him, even those of us who are aware that he's Legolas's dear old dad.


"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Mar 3 2013, 12:36am

Post #32 of 42 (246 views)
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I cry during that scene [In reply to] Can't Post

That's how well PJ did with that whole character. We of course detested him when he tried to take the ring from Frodo, how he handled himself at the council of elrond, then BAM. In one scene and a few lines, we cry over his demise. Great great job by PJ.

Thank you for your questions, now sod off and go do something useful -- Martin Freeman, Twitter t 3/1/13


Marionette
Rohan


Mar 3 2013, 1:32am

Post #33 of 42 (223 views)
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Super awesome fanarts [In reply to] Can't Post

Artist are doing amazing Hobbit fanarts, such as my avatar, you can watch them in Deviantart.

Actually I have seen some Hobbit comic type arts and if there were a comic book like that about the life of these dwarves in Erebor (before Smaug) I would buy it!!!


"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"
Queen



Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 3 2013, 2:22am

Post #34 of 42 (214 views)
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Indeed they have some parallels... (rife with spoilers. You know) [In reply to] Can't Post

But I agree with your take. I am positive that Thorin's loss will be a huge impact; plus no matter what he will have done (specifically when bonkers) he has fought so hard against so many rotten circumstances in his life. I did not envision anything topping Grey Havens for me - I know it isn't death but it's loss. This will.

If you haven't already seen it the "Heirs of Durin" site has an article In Defense of Thorin Oakenshield. Worth reading.

If you look back a few pages at "Will Dain be Worthy to be Called King?" we had a discussion about the ending and our ideas. (Not sure how to make you a link.)

Oh, those boys...its so brief you can miss it if you read too fast in the text. Won't be onscreen.


Esmeralda
Bree


Mar 3 2013, 2:39am

Post #35 of 42 (252 views)
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I never thought I could love... [In reply to] Can't Post

...a Tolkien dwarf. Then I saw my first trailer. Heard that song for the first time. It felt as though I'd been clobbered by Bofur's hammer.

I love them *all*! Individually and the whole rugby scrum that they are. I love how they work and fight as a cohesive unit, like a colony of army ants in constant, subliminal communication.

Thorin - his first moment in the trailer when he wheels his pony about, backlit by sunlight. Ah, so *that's* a Dwarf-Lord. *Now* I understand. The way he always runs *towards* danger. The silent devotion of the other dwarves, which he accepts as his due and his burden.

Kili - dropped in my estimation, actually, being entirely unhousebroken, but his archery skills impressed me. Perhaps he will outgrow his frat-boy manners.

Fili - is a bristling arsenal of weaponry, who gives off something of a surfer vibe. I love the way he walks and at this point like him better than Kili.

Mister Dwalin - the *look* of him, all of it, from the tattoos to the knotted forearms. He is Thorin's lieutenant, dealing with the troops, managing logistics, serving as body-guard to his king. Magnificent.

Balin - wise counselor and mentor, compassionate voice of reason. I love the discussion in the pantry about moldy cheese, but it's his role as story-teller that was truly captivating. Rest easy, Balin son of Fundin, King of Moria [sniffle].

Bofur - Pippi Longstocking braids, dimples, and that wicked croquet mallet of his. Cheekiest and most talkative of the bunch.

Bifur - the axe, the fork, the gestures. The slightly skewed look in his eye and his affinity for salad greens.

Bombur - his outrageous look and the way he is carries himself so comfortably.

Gloin - Gimli's da, 'nuff said.

Oin - taken by the Watcher at the Gate.

Dori - the clucking hen

Nori - the wicked eyebrow braids

Ori - knitted mittens and the book of Mazarbul. Brave to the end.


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Mar 3 2013, 10:51am

Post #36 of 42 (208 views)
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How do we love them? Let us count the ways. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...a Tolkien dwarf. Then I saw my first trailer. Heard that song for the first time. It felt as though I'd been clobbered by Bofur's hammer.

I love them *all*! Individually and the whole rugby scrum that they are. I love how they work and fight as a cohesive unit, like a colony of army ants in constant, subliminal communication.

Thorin - his first moment in the trailer when he wheels his pony about, backlit by sunlight. Ah, so *that's* a Dwarf-Lord. *Now* I understand. The way he always runs *towards* danger. The silent devotion of the other dwarves, which he accepts as his due and his burden.

Kili - dropped in my estimation, actually, being entirely unhousebroken, but his archery skills impressed me. Perhaps he will outgrow his frat-boy manners.

Fili - is a bristling arsenal of weaponry, who gives off something of a surfer vibe. I love the way he walks and at this point like him better than Kili.

Mister Dwalin - the *look* of him, all of it, from the tattoos to the knotted forearms. He is Thorin's lieutenant, dealing with the troops, managing logistics, serving as body-guard to his king. Magnificent.

Balin - wise counselor and mentor, compassionate voice of reason. I love the discussion in the pantry about moldy cheese, but it's his role as story-teller that was truly captivating. Rest easy, Balin son of Fundin, King of Moria [sniffle].

Bofur - Pippi Longstocking braids, dimples, and that wicked croquet mallet of his. Cheekiest and most talkative of the bunch.

Bifur - the axe, the fork, the gestures. The slightly skewed look in his eye and his affinity for salad greens.

Bombur - his outrageous look and the way he is carries himself so comfortably.

Gloin - Gimli's da, 'nuff said.

Oin - taken by the Watcher at the Gate.

Dori - the clucking hen

Nori - the wicked eyebrow braids

Ori - knitted mittens and the book of Mazarbul. Brave to the end.



Great post, and great reasons, Esmeralda. I especially agree with you on...well, all of them, really. Except Kili. His irreverent housemanners are part of his charm. He's so bouncy, enthusiastic, and fierce, I don't care if he does have a penchant for boot-wiping in unorthodox places. He could wipe his feet on my mother's glory box any day. Or mine, for that matter.


marillaraina
Rohan

Mar 3 2013, 8:57pm

Post #37 of 42 (180 views)
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sounds good [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
...a Tolkien dwarf. Then I saw my first trailer. Heard that song for the first time. It felt as though I'd been clobbered by Bofur's hammer.

I love them *all*! Individually and the whole rugby scrum that they are. I love how they work and fight as a cohesive unit, like a colony of army ants in constant, subliminal communication.

Thorin - his first moment in the trailer when he wheels his pony about, backlit by sunlight. Ah, so *that's* a Dwarf-Lord. *Now* I understand. The way he always runs *towards* danger. The silent devotion of the other dwarves, which he accepts as his due and his burden.

Kili - dropped in my estimation, actually, being entirely unhousebroken, but his archery skills impressed me. Perhaps he will outgrow his frat-boy manners.

Fili - is a bristling arsenal of weaponry, who gives off something of a surfer vibe. I love the way he walks and at this point like him better than Kili.

Mister Dwalin - the *look* of him, all of it, from the tattoos to the knotted forearms. He is Thorin's lieutenant, dealing with the troops, managing logistics, serving as body-guard to his king. Magnificent.

Balin - wise counselor and mentor, compassionate voice of reason. I love the discussion in the pantry about moldy cheese, but it's his role as story-teller that was truly captivating. Rest easy, Balin son of Fundin, King of Moria [sniffle].

Bofur - Pippi Longstocking braids, dimples, and that wicked croquet mallet of his. Cheekiest and most talkative of the bunch.

Bifur - the axe, the fork, the gestures. The slightly skewed look in his eye and his affinity for salad greens.

Bombur - his outrageous look and the way he is carries himself so comfortably.

Gloin - Gimli's da, 'nuff said.

Oin - taken by the Watcher at the Gate.

Dori - the clucking hen

Nori - the wicked eyebrow braids

Ori - knitted mittens and the book of Mazarbul. Brave to the end.



Great post, and great reasons, Esmeralda. I especially agree with you on...well, all of them, really. Except Kili. His irreverent housemanners are part of his charm. He's so bouncy, enthusiastic, and fierce, I don't care if he does have a penchant for boot-wiping in unorthodox places. He could wipe his feet on my mother's glory box any day. Or mine, for that matter.


I agree with both of you. :) Even before the film I had already started to develop such a real fondness and affection for the group of them, in a way I have to say I never felt about the Fellowship. They were almost TOO much individuals, the dwarves feel more like a family.

I think I really loved Gloin in Rivendell, he was SO Gimli's daddy there. :D The way he was like "Is he insulting us!?!?(with the undertone of "get me my ax!"). I think Elrond did that on purpose though. He was taking, as the British say, the piss out of them - he looked all serious and spoke in a language he knew they probably didn't understand. Kind of loved HIM for that. :D

But anyway Gloin's wonderfully Gimli-esque outburst led to the Dwarf huddle. I loved the way they went into a huddle to decide what to do and that is one of the reasons why I love the whole adorable, dirty, loud, food devouring, furniture breaking gang of them. :)

As for manners - Dwalin barging in expecting immediate food servce, Balin and Dwalin throwing Bilbo's food on the floor(they tossed that piece of cheese on the floor) and Fili dumping his weapons like Bilbo was his valet and walking on Bilbo's table to pass out drinks? Nori using Bilbo's doily as a towel. Those are just off the top of my head. :D

So I tend to think dwarves as a whole have frat-boy manners. LOL

On the plus side, Kili greeted Bilbo by name(or tried to:)) and tried to compliment and talk to him about his house(which may not have quite worked out due to the glory box incident:)). Kili's actually the only dwarf, out of the ones we had an individual introduction to, shown to greet Bilbo personally and try to talk to Bilbo on a personal level that he instigated, that didn't involve Bilbo serving him in some way.

I thought he was pretty well mannered, for a dwarf. LOL And besides he kicks ass, I just noticed how much he was doing in the Goblin town sequence when I rewatched the other night. :D He's very handy with a sword as well as a bow.


Esmeralda
Bree


Mar 4 2013, 5:15am

Post #38 of 42 (173 views)
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Elrond is *totally*... [In reply to] Can't Post

...winding the dwarves up. I think it's PJ's version of the 'overly merry tongues' of the elves in the book. There is always tension between elves and dwarves, but Elrond seems to take a very neutral stance - and appears to have a sense of humor about this invasion of surly barbarians.

Kili - heheheh, I doubt I can defend my current view of Kili, since I'm not sure I quite understand it myself. I suspect it was based on the idea that he might share some of Thorin's dignity - but when I saw him laughing with his mouth full of food, I realized that was an unrealistic expectation. Maybe time and experience will temper him, but the majesty just isn't there yet. Which is just as well, otherwise we'd not get to hear him shouting about his huge parasites. And that would be a cruel shame Laugh


marillaraina
Rohan

Mar 4 2013, 9:19am

Post #39 of 42 (150 views)
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Definitely [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
...winding the dwarves up. I think it's PJ's version of the 'overly merry tongues' of the elves in the book. There is always tension between elves and dwarves, but Elrond seems to take a very neutral stance - and appears to have a sense of humor about this invasion of surly barbarians.


I have to admit, I liked Elrond in this film more than in LOTR. I can understand his being much more serious and cranky, given the circumstances of the time, but it was hard to sense the warmth and kindness, except in a few brief scenes. It somehow made him seem less...wise. To me he seems more wise in The Hobbit.


Quote
I suspect it was based on the idea that he might share some of Thorin's dignity


You don't need to defend your current view. It's as valid as mine or anyone else's. :)

Hmm...let's see, is there a way to find hope for the future...there is a hint of majesty in the scene where he says "Daisy and Bungo are missing". Clearly not the context, but his walk through the scene is almost majestic. ;)

Keep an eye out in the Goblin town sequence. The scene when they are pushed in front of the Goblin King and he tells his minions to search them, I think there are hints of possible future majesty. :)

Kili's very composed and doesn't do as much pushing back or pulling away as some of the other dwarves. He grimaces for a second when they start but then sort of schools his expression into something approaching disdainful indifference. Thorin was next to him but slightly behind him, I think he'd have been proud if he noticed. :)

So there might be a light at the end of the tunnel. :D

I had the opposite expectation of you so that could explain it. I was thus pleasantly surprised. I was afraid I'd only be watching the character for the actor, but instead I genuinely loved the characterization and thought they managed to get a lot into what amounted to not a lot of dialogue or scene focus.

Off that topic and onto another, it just occurred to me, that they might use the imprisonment in Mirkwood in the same way they were able to use the breaking of the fellowship, on a smaller scale of course and only temporary. As a chance to focus a bit more intensely on individuals or smaller groups of individuals. When the dwarves, Bilbo and Gandalf are all gathered in a gang, almost no one except the leads get any significant attention but if they are broken up into smaller groups, it will be a chance to focus on some of the lesser known ones, even if they are only talking to one of the leads.


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Mar 4 2013, 9:24am)


ryouko
Lorien

Mar 5 2013, 12:57am

Post #40 of 42 (135 views)
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And he's enjoying every moment of it [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...winding the dwarves up. I think it's PJ's version of the 'overly merry tongues' of the elves in the book. There is always tension between elves and dwarves, but Elrond seems to take a very neutral stance - and appears to have a sense of humor about this invasion of surly barbarians.


There's certainly a look of humor on Elrond's face when Gandalf explains what he said. I also like the face he makes after Gandalf tells him that the map is academical. It's hard to explain the expression, you just have to see it. But it always makes me smile. ^_^


Kim
Valinor


Aug 30 2013, 8:09pm

Post #41 of 42 (73 views)
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OK, since you reminded me of this thread, [In reply to] Can't Post

and I’m no longer a lurker, I had to add my bit. I can’t remember which viewings prompted some of these, but here’s the list:
  • Thorin: see my avatar EvilHeart
  • Dwalin: “That’ll be the door”
  • Balin: “Balin, at your service”
  • Kili: “You must be Mr. Boggins!”
  • Fili: “Kili, take my hand!”
  • Oin: “He said he’s an expert!”
  • Gloin: “We’re making a long term deposit”
  • Bifur: burning the green leaf over the fire in Rivendell
  • Bofur: “You’re right, we don’t belong anywhere”
  • Bombur: when he stares up at Ori after he burps
  • Ori: “I don’t like green food”
  • Dori: “may I offer you a cup of chamomile?”
  • Nori: “who’re you calling dim?”
  • Bilbo: “Good morning”
  • Gandalf: “Good morning”

SmileSmileSmileSmileSmile


Erewen
The Shire

Sep 2 2013, 10:00pm

Post #42 of 42 (71 views)
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What got me hooked [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin - "There is no choice Balin, not for me."

Fili and Kili - "We were supposed to be looking after the ponies."
"Only we've encountered a slight problem." The looks on their faces.
Kili's kicked puppy look when he says "We didn't mean anything by it"

Balin- "Good evening." "Yes it is, though i think it might rain later.

Dwalin - his sort of 'I despair' look when Gloin says "We're making a long term deposit"

Oin - Stuffing the napkin into his ear trumpet while the elves play

Gloin - "In that case lead on" after they're invited to dinner

Bifur - when he speaks in Khuzdul and Gandalf has no idea what he is saying

Bombur - the "stop it you've had plenty" moment

Bofur - possibly the first time I saw his hat, or any of his lines in particular "Think furnace with wings" or "I wish you all the look in the world."

Dori - "Go on try it"

Nori - His look of surprise when Bilbo takes the doily away

Ori - Ori is along with Bofur is my favourite possible because I am most like him preferring to read about the heroic tales then actually do them, and being the world's fussiest eater surviving mainly on potatoes (taters) especially chips (as in fries in the US) when he said "Have they got any chips?" my two brothers watching with me in the cinema immediately looked at me. I kicked them in the shin but that is not the point

The good thing about having such a big cast on screen as opposed to the books is that you can see them even if they are not part of the action, I could probably watch the hobbit 13 times each time focusing on a different dwarf not to mention Gandalf and Bilbo. But the downside is what happens to Fili, Kili and Thorin is going to make me cry this time

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