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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
What do you dislike the most: TH AUJ Pt. 2
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Feb 22 2013, 10:01pm

Post #26 of 37 (1506 views)
Casting is a big one [In reply to] Can't Post

Every actor that appeared in LOTR who needs to be in The Hobbit was able to reprise their roles. It really makes a huge difference for continuity sake. Martin Freeman was an amazing choice for Bilbo, and is the actor who I always pictured in the role. Almost every actor really delivered in AUJ I don't really want to discuss the acting in the Star Wars prequels...

He also did right be resurrecting Hobbiton, and shooting in New Zealand just like before. And for the most part, the film did pretty well with being treated as a prequel. PJ found a pretty good balance between acknowledging that we have already seen LOTR, but also that this is really the beginning of the story. This is something Lucas failed miserably at IMO.

You're right about the digital look being more fit for star wars, but the effects were far worse in those films than in AUJ. Basically every single thing was green screen. Almost no location shooting whatsoever. Hell, rooms were green screened in star wars when they could have easily just built an actual set.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


Feb 23 2013, 12:15am

Post #27 of 37 (1467 views)
Agreed on pretty much all of this. [In reply to] Can't Post

I do like that William clearly did NOT want any more of Tom's mess in the stew. I think the Tom/Bilbo nose-rag scene would have been really good if NOT for the excess of mucous. Peter has a tendency to do just a notch too little with certain magic scenes (the pinecones), and just a notch too much with violence and gross humour at times. Here, he went overboard with the extended, dripping mucous and phlegm. It would have been enough to have the spray and then proceed with the lines which followed.

Agreed about the Witch-King's "tomb" ( I disliked how much of the history of Angmar, Arnor, Lindon and Rivendell is robbed there), and about there being moments in Galadriel and Gandalf's interaction that didn't sit right. Some of those moments were perfect, but in others, as I have said, he seemed too much her pupil or lackey, and that is all wrong.

I also had issues with some of the alterations to Dwarven history. And if you are going to show the Moria Gate, dammit, let us hane a little allusion to The Balrog (more than the highly amiguous flames). He is the reason they couldn't return to Moria, and the reason they fled and founded Erebor in the first place. Durin's Beard, Durin's Line, Durin's Heir, Durin's Folk, everything Durin, well here is a thing to remember, Durin's Bane. Tongue

In Reply To
Going by "What I wish had been done differently" (highly subjective and bordering on nit-picking)

Gross stuff
- Ori's burp. I wouldn't have minded so much if it was not in slo-mo or so 'offensive'.
- Snot in the pot during the trolls' scene. Funnily I didn't mind the snot on Bilbo as much, because the troll's confusion at what came out of his nose got every audience roaring with laughter every time, so I guess that one works.
- Mild annoyance at Radagast's bird poop. Not a big deal, really, and one can of course always 'double-think' it into lichen :P

White Council
- Didn't really like the whole business with the Witch-King and his sword... I think it takes the magic out of it by having it explained that way. Something also bothers me about the Witch-King's tomb.
- Galadriel's interaction with Gandalf is also a bit questionable... but I guess we will have to see how it will play out in the next two movies

The goblins
need to be way more evil to justify all the easy, throwaway deaths. The Goblin King's falling on the bridge seemed cruel to me -- because it's a corpse falling, played for laughs. Maybe it's just me, but I feel that the dead should be accorded proper respect.

The pacing
Especially near the end, where it's just action, action, action. I think this will be fixed in the EE, where we see more of the long-awaited character moments :)

That's all, I think. I love the rest of the movie

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Feb 23 2013, 12:21am

Post #28 of 37 (1470 views)
Really, about the Wargs>? They are SOOOOO much BETTER in An Unexpected Journey. [In reply to] Can't Post

At least these look like they are actually akin to wolves. The wargs in this movie look like a plausible variant on evil, giant, slightly mutated by evil, demon posessed wolves. The TTT wargs looked like giant, facially deformed and likely retarded hyena. Why wre their eyes so small and so far apart? They looked a MESS! An Unexpected Journery Wargs were magnificent by comparison, even if they were not perfect (I would have liked a little more shag, and more grey or black than brown fur).

In Reply To
I rather like the Orcs and Goblins, but most of all in the high frame rate, in which they are quite sharp, as is the whole Goblin town and the running fight between the Dwarves and Goblins.

When it comes to Azog, I was a bit undecided about him, but looking at his movement in the battle outside the Mines of Moria, and listening to his deep voice speaking in the Orkish tongue, he is really pretty good. I prefer him, for instance, to Gothmog in ROTK ľ he was so encrusted that you couldn't see any expression on his features. (Sometimes less is more.) The only critters that were better in LOTR than the CGI Goblins and Orcs in AUJ were the Uruk-hai, who were non-CGI. I didn't like the Wargs in TTT, and I don't like them in AUJ.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Feb 23 2013, 12:29am

Post #29 of 37 (1468 views)
Exactly. I think some of the best moments for kids (some of which were also the best moments for the inner child of many of us adults) [In reply to] Can't Post

didn't rely on potty humour at all. Like I said in other places, SOME of it was okay, or would have been if not done to excess. Tom blowing his nose on Bilbo and fretting about what came out of his hooter could have worked for children and adults alike, if not for the completely superflous and distatsteful string of mucous that Peter decided needed a full 5 seconds of spotlighting.

But there were plenty of great things for kids, from the Chip the Plates song and antics, to Radagast and his enchanted forest and his bunny sled (the impatient lead rabbit is quite funny and charming if you allow him to be). There were many places in the film where I thought the team perfectly balanced the adult and child appeal. There were some places, however, where they seemed to entirely forget that one or the other of those groups was in the audience, whether with the bird poopy on Radagast's face, or going a little too long in displaying a dwarf king's head to be quite right for a child to see.

In Reply To
It assumes that kids can only be entertained by potty humor and tasteless jokes. Sure, I bet it is perfectly entertaining for them. But when I think about my favorite childrens films, and films I loved as a kid, I don't remember snot jokes and burping. I remember being mesmerized by great stories and characters that resonated with me.

It's so easy to forget what it's like to be a kid, so I don't blame filmmakers for using these sorts of things to appeal to them. Kids will grow out of this sort of humor, they won't grow out of an amazing story with amazing characters.

I think it's more important to make a film that respects it's younger audience, and aims to stand the test of time. Something that will grow up with them.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by Altaira on Jun 7 2013, 4:10am)

Tol Eressea

Feb 23 2013, 2:08pm

Post #30 of 37 (1507 views)
Coincidentally, just seen this on tumblr! [In reply to] Can't Post


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
» Victoria Monfort


Feb 23 2013, 2:13pm

Post #31 of 37 (1425 views)
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

That is very interesting. Thanks for the link.


Feb 23 2013, 3:31pm

Post #32 of 37 (1437 views)
Just one thing: Thorin's last speech. I hate cheese. PJ, RESHOOT THAT SCENE! [In reply to] Can't Post

They should have handled it more carefully...
I can withstand the horrible last line of the Goblin King (it looked like they had no idea how to close that character and they just said "screw it, it's over, let's have a nice break"), but that was the arc of ¨Thorin and Bilbe, THORIN AND BILBO.
I hope they understand how badly they faild there and reshoot that scene this summer (winter).

PS: meanwhile they could add something, in that scene, about the (goddamned) Eagles and tell us why they didn't bring them to Erebor and all that sort of stuff.



Feb 23 2013, 4:24pm

Post #33 of 37 (1432 views)
I have a feeling from what I have read that [In reply to] Can't Post

there are a lot of people in the wider world who love that scene and might not take kindly to it being changed.

The Shire

Feb 23 2013, 5:48pm

Post #34 of 37 (1399 views)
I second that. And also, while ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... kids will probably stop finding burpy jokes funny after a couple viewings, really great dialog and witty humour remain funny no matter how many times you see them.


Feb 24 2013, 7:05pm

Post #35 of 37 (1368 views)
Is that not the point, after all? [In reply to] Can't Post

I do not feel that being more well-versed in Tolkien warrants more screen time for an actor. If I were Christopher Lee I might wish for a better script - the lines about mushrooms and yellowed teeth are pretty poor - but why should he have more screen time? Quite frankly I'm surprised he was given as much as we saw.

Saruman may be head of the council but he is completely dismissive of any threat of Sauron re-emerging as a power; he's not much of a Middle Earth guardian to be so off his guard! Gandalf and Galadriel are actively searching for any signs of Sauron. Gandalf is already way ahead of Saruman in speculating about Smaug becoming subservient to an evil power and is proactive in facilitating the dwarves' quest to destroy the dragon so as to prevent that very possibility. I feel the council scene shows that Gandalf and Galadriel do not agree with Saruman, who obviously has spent the entire night refuting Gandalf's concerns (hence Gandalf's weary expression at sunrise), and that they will continue to be on their guard despite Saruman's efforts to dissuade them. They are united in that commitment.

We have no real reason to believe Saruman is actually good; in fact, we know quite certainly that he is not - that he succumbs to lust for power and dominance. Can you imagine Gandalf or Galadriel doing the same? We saw Galadriel pass her test in Lothlorien when Frodo offered her the ring. Gandalf passes that same test many times over. Saruman would be an instant fail. I think the council scene deliberately foreshadows this in depicting Elrond (who remains silent but who obviously understands that Gandalf will not be pleased to have Saruman show up, and who takes the Morgul blade very seriously), Galadriel and Gandalf as on the same page and Saruman as the outlier.

Two more points: Galadriel originally wanted Gandalf, not Saruman, to be the head of the council, and Gandalf later becomes Gandal the White later "as he should have been" (not the exact words, but the exact message).

Grey Havens

Feb 24 2013, 7:47pm

Post #36 of 37 (1346 views)
Mixed Messages [In reply to] Can't Post

What is actually done with Saruman in the film belies Lee's statement that Saruman is good and honorable during the Hobbit. For if he were, we would clearly see the evidence and act upon it. But we as viewers and readers already know of his designs and devices, so it is pointless to hide it from the moviegoers (but not pointless to hide it from the characters). And yes, Saruman's lines are not up to snuff. But it sure is great to see them all there together. Some complain the scene was overly long. I couldn't, and won't, get enough of the White Council. Some also disagree with that sentiment too, of course.


Feb 24 2013, 7:57pm

Post #37 of 37 (1391 views)
here are mine [In reply to] Can't Post

the warg chase:
i found it stupid, completely out of place and unrealistic. the arriving at rivendell would have been so much better if they had done it more similar to the book.

some of the humour: especialy in the troll scene i found it was too much and a little over top, so that i didn't really have a feeling of tension or thread in this dangerous situation. also bilbo is acting far too self-confident in this one

goblin town: after a fourth view i give up on liking this sequence. i don't particularly like the goblin design, i don't like that they made their caves so vast with all that wooden stuff (would have been a lot greater with dark, claustrophobic tunnels with a lot of sideways and crossings, a real labyrinth in which the dwarves get hopelessly lost during their flight and the colors were far too bright) and i didn't like the stupid action stunts, seriously why did they have to include that indiana jones rock-ball? and i didn't like the death of GG!!!!

i really do hope that due to a darker and more serious atmosphere the next films will get me back into this world a lot better

(This post was edited by triptrap on Feb 24 2013, 7:58pm)

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