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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Hint of the Dwarrowdelf Dwarven theme in AUJ?

The Grey Pilgrim

Feb 15 2013, 3:42pm

Post #1 of 11 (1482 views)
Hint of the Dwarrowdelf Dwarven theme in AUJ? Can't Post

The Dwarrowdelf theme in Moria from Fellowship of the Ring is one of my favorites cues in the whole trilogy and I longed so much to see it reprised/ built in some form in the Hobbit trilogy.

After careful listening and several viewings I think I hear a hint of it, The first half, which plays twice in the film once when Gandalf hands the key to Thorin at the unexpected party (heard on the soundtrack in the track "axe or sword" at about 2:50 in) and then once again after Bilbo says "I do believe the worst is behind us" and we begin the tracking aerial shot with the bird. I don't think this is on the soundtrack in that form. both times it is abruptly cut off by a dissenting chord which breaks the melody, and I can't help thinking this is foreshadowing for expanded usage in the other two films or if maybe I'm just hearing things I want to Tongue Wink

Did anyone else notice this? Can anybody else weigh in? Magpie we need you lol.



Feb 15 2013, 3:55pm

Post #2 of 11 (910 views)
It's There [In reply to] Can't Post

I recognized it immediately. Its use in FOTR is brilliant and never ceases to awe not matter how many time one watches the unfolding of the great city of Dwarrowdelf.


Feb 15 2013, 4:18pm

Post #3 of 11 (862 views)
I hear it too [In reply to] Can't Post

With what Doug Adams has said about certain themes being reconstituted, I'm wondering if the Dwarrowdelf theme might become a theme of Dwarf reminiscence. Perhaps we might hear it again when the Dwarves gaze upon the abandoned halls of Erebor?

Slightly crazier theory - hearing the theme play upon the passing of the key, I also wondered if this might be a hint of where Gandalf acquires it, i.e. in Moria, given that he may well be encounting demented Thrain in the present timeline.


Feb 15 2013, 4:37pm

Post #4 of 11 (844 views)
you're right. [In reply to] Can't Post

It does appear fleetingly there and also you can hear a hint of it at the battle with azog out side moria.I think all these little things make for great connections and ultimately very clever movie making.

Arrow....black arrow,I have saved you to the last.you have never failed me and always I have recovered you.I had you from my father and he from old.if ever you came from the forges of the true king under the mountain,go now and speed well


Feb 15 2013, 4:53pm

Post #5 of 11 (838 views)
Oh yes indeed! [In reply to] Can't Post

The first time I saw Gandalf hand the key to Thorin and heard that music I think my heart wobbled a bit in my chest - then it trailed into something else, but I was left with the anticipation of things to come.

The music is masterful, weaving the new with the old so that fans of the LOTR trilogy have these moments cueing them in to the wonders that await.

I fully expect to hear the music near the end of the story, in Erebor.

As a side note, I will confess that I replayed Gandalf risking a little more light to show the fellowship the Dwarrodelf over and over, mostly just to hear that music swell and convey the grandeur that was Moria. *chills*


Feb 15 2013, 5:24pm

Post #6 of 11 (812 views)
Make that *Dwarrowdelf.* Sorry. Poor proofreading on my part! // [In reply to] Can't Post


Old Toby
Grey Havens

Feb 15 2013, 5:27pm

Post #7 of 11 (838 views)
Oh yes, that Dwarrowdelf theme is awesome [In reply to] Can't Post

So grand and majestic in FOTR! And yes, it was so wonderful to hear it again as Gandalf hands Thorin the key! Shades of past glories and perhaps a hope for the future of the dwarf kingdom, signifying just how much this quest means to Thorin.

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Feb 15 2013, 5:54pm

Post #8 of 11 (840 views)
Magpie's just enjoying herself for The Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

... and not studying, tracking, or analyzing the score. :-)

I can provide some scant info in regards to LOTR.

It's heard three times in LOTR: in the halls of Dwarrowdelf and twice in Balin's tomb.

Adams said in the CR-FOTR liner notes that it "expresses the Dwarves' pride as well as their folly." (pg 19)

In referencing the book (Music of the LOTR Book - pg 58-59) we find:

... the theme is less coarse than other Dwarf music because Dwarrowdelf was the Dwarves' 'greatest accomplishment'... their 'loftiest aspirations'

...each "leap upwards" by the French horns "droops sadly down almost immediately, falling like the city itself"

...Shore contrasts the grandeur of Dwarrowdelf with its current (in FOTR) ruined state

... there is a contrast, in the music, of a "church mode" with a "somber mode"

...the theme is associated with scenes that are somber and sad

So... if you're looking for the theme in The Hobbit, I would be looking to see how Shore is taking music written for a once glorious, now ruined empire and applying it to themes or situations we find in The Hobbit. How is the music different? If we think we hear it in particular scenes, how do those scenes connect to the situation of Moria as seen in FOTR such that we can expand what the music is representing? Is the music in TH a precursor to the Dwarrowdelf music? Or can we imagine that the music heard in each movie represents developed themes drawn from some conceptually earlier Dwarven music. That is, C is not drawn from B so much as C and B are both drawn from A.

Remember, it's not so much a game of spotting easter eggs (found one!) but of seeing how the music serves the plot and helps support the concepts found in LOTR and the conceptual differences between LOTR and TH.

You can get a head start on what Doug will surely cover down the road at some point. (not soon, I'm betting)


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide

(This post was edited by Magpie on Feb 15 2013, 5:55pm)

Lieutenant of Dol Guldur

Feb 15 2013, 7:02pm

Post #9 of 11 (784 views)
Dwarven themes [In reply to] Can't Post

The funny thing is... I always saw it as an alternate version of Thorins theme... but if you hear very carefully you'll find out that Thorins theme and the dwarrowdelf theme are very, very similar. Another clue for Maestro Shores great talent!

"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."

L. Ron Halfelven
Grey Havens

Feb 15 2013, 7:50pm

Post #10 of 11 (765 views)
A hint, if not more. [In reply to] Can't Post

The three-note introductory phrase (III-IV-V of the minor scale) to the Dwarrowdelf theme pops up each time a new Dwarf appears on Bilbo's doorstep. I recall a couple of places later on where we get an elaborated version of this phrase.

"123456!... password!... password1!... password2!... Gimli, do you know Durin's date of birth? Thanks. 140457!... mithril@!... mithril#!... maltbeer!... qwerty!... Legolas, do your elf eyes see any post-its lying around the base of the cliff?"

Grey Havens

Feb 16 2013, 5:42am

Post #11 of 11 (907 views)
You know, Magpie... [In reply to] Can't Post

I just have to say I love reading your thoughts on the music. Thanks for the time you put into your music posts, and I'll look forward to future insights of yours on The Hobbit score. Smile


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