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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Big Bad Bolg (book spoilers & movie speculation)

Lio
Lorien


Feb 13 2013, 2:01am

Post #1 of 19 (1587 views)
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Big Bad Bolg (book spoilers & movie speculation) Can't Post

Since his story will without a doubt be expanded from what we get in the book, I thought I would start a thread regarding Bolg and his role in the upcoming movies. In the book, all we really know about Bolg is that he 1) is the son of Azog 2) is apparently the king of all the Orcs of the Misty Mountains, whom he commands from Mount Gundabad 3) meets his end during the Battle of the Five Armies, where he is defeated by Beorn. So, basically, I wonder how these points will be addressed in the movies.

Bolg and Azog

Since Azog's role has been expanded as well, how will their stories tie together? The way Azog has been set up as a menacing and powerful villain, I think it's likely that he'll make it as far as the Battle of Five Armies. Does that mean Azog will initially be in command, then be killed leaving Bolg to take over and seek revenge? Or maybe the other way around? I wonder if there will be any significant screen time where they are together, maybe plotting some evil scheme. Tongue

As an aside, we already know about the father/son relationship, so I wonder if this angle will get any focus. I always thought it was interesting that this detail is mentioned in the books but its significance is never really explored. That is, putting it all together, one could say that the Battle of Five Armies is an echo of the Battle of Azanulbizar and, by extension, of the War of the Dwarves and the Orcs, but it's never stated explicitly that Bolg is motivated by revenge.

Bolg and the Necromancer

According to his action figure description (I think it was), in the movies Bolg will be based out of Dol Guldur (at least initially). Whoa, that's a big change! What the heck is he doing there? Why is he working for the Necromancer? I wonder if we'll get some background for this, or if they'll just let it be since having an Orc serving a Dark Lord isn't all that unusual?

Bolg and Beorn

If the movies stick to the book (and I hope they do), these two will have a showdown during the final battle. In the book, Beorn just kind of suddenly shows up. But knowing how the movies have been handled so far, I think these two will be given some backstory of which their fight will serve as the climax. There's been news floating around about Beorn being involved in some kind of torture scene, as well as Bolg being a torturer at Dol Guldur, so if you put the pieces together this could be where their mutual hatred comes from. Also, Bolg seems to be wearing bear claws and perhaps fur. So maybe he hunts the bear-folk the same way Azog does Dwarves? (Then again, Bolg also seems to be wearing a Dwarf beard and perhaps hair. And either someone has bloodied his mouth or he has a very interesting choice of lipstick. And are his eyebrows real? Crazy)

Well, that's all I can think of for now. If anyone has some additions/comments, feel free to share! Cool

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 13 2013, 10:21am

Post #2 of 19 (788 views)
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My, what big teeth you have! [In reply to] Can't Post

Bolg, I mean. Not you, Lio. Smile Actually, that line works better if he were a Warg. And since I'm about to confuse even myself...

Neat thoughts on this, and it's going to be interesting to see how this storyline plays out, particularly with regard to who-kills-whom and whether or not any killings are related to the son-seeks-vengeance-for-father (or grandfather) theme.

Azog and Thorin have been clearly set up as archenemies. I'm completely convinced (for now, at least!) that one of three things must and will happen: either Azog kills Thorin, Thorin kills Azog, or possibly both. When this happens is another story. No idea. Seems a bit late to happen in the Bo5A, but would be anticlimatic if it happens earlier.

So here's my further speculation: Thorin kills Azog at some point, and is thus revenged for Thror's slaying at Azanulbizar (I just love spelling that!). Bolg thus seeks revenge for his father's death, which ultimately leads to Bolg slaying Thorin in the Bo5A. Beorn joins the battle near the end as he should, and, enraged at Thorin's (impending, since he doesn't die immediately) death, slays Bolg. This, however, denies Dain the opportunity to heroically slay anybody of importance, so he heads back to the Iron Hills and Balin is crowned king. Okay, okay, wishful thinking on that last bit, but I think the rest is quite plausible.

I really do think that it's very important to the storyline of the movie that Azog and Bolg are father/son, and that it was Azog who slew Thorin's grandfather. PJ has to be setting this up for a good reason.


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Feb 13 2013, 11:06am

Post #3 of 19 (763 views)
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they will set up Dain in some way [In reply to] Can't Post

but they cannot crown Balin king under the hill, because he dies in Moria, and we KNOW that Tongue


Angharad73
Rohan

Feb 13 2013, 11:22am

Post #4 of 19 (764 views)
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I do hope... *book spoilers* [In reply to] Can't Post

... that Thorin gets to kill Azog and not the other way round. Actually, I could see it go either way. Thorin kills Azog, and then Bolg kills/mortally wounds Thorin before being offed by Beorn. Or, alternatively, Azog kills Thorin and is then killed by Dain, the Bolg/Beorn fight being something separate. Personally, I do hope it's more in vein of the first option. I mean, so far Thorin has not killed any significant foe, has he? Gandalf got the Goblin King, and Thorin didn't stand a chance against Azog when they did meet in AUJ. Bard gets to kill Smaug (I suppose, since that's the way it is in the book), and later Beorn kills Bolg (also, I suppose, because it's in the book). That leaves Thorin with...? Azog, presumably, especially since this is a personal vendetta.

OK, I like Thorin a lot, so I hope that, since he has to die, at least he gets to personally avenge his grandad first...

And let's kick Dain to the curb and start a campaign to put Balin on the throne of Erebor! Tongue


nhui06
Rivendell

Feb 13 2013, 3:34pm

Post #5 of 19 (678 views)
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No relationship [In reply to] Can't Post

I would not be surprised if Azog and Bolg are not related (or at least not mentioned as being related in the movie). I do not believe PJ wants to get into the area of orcs having families (forgot where I uncovered that, maybe the docs in the EEs). Bolg may be the Necromencer's chief lieutenant in Dol Guldur (or more likely Azog is actually in line with the Necromencer; who probably healed Azog after the battle at Moria).


Glorfindela
Valinor

Feb 13 2013, 4:06pm

Post #6 of 19 (654 views)
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I would prefer it [In reply to] Can't Post

if Azog was killed by Thorin early on in the next film, leaving Bolg to be dealt with, if only because he is a CGI character that jars with me. One strong main Orc foe in the form of Bolg, who is perhaps after Thorin for killing Azog, is plenty.


MEIGWIT
Bree


Feb 13 2013, 4:30pm

Post #7 of 19 (669 views)
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Could it be possible... [In reply to] Can't Post

That since Thorin and company do not have a climactic battle in the book while Smaug is terrorizing Laketown that Azog somehow shows up to have a climactic battle with Thorin and company? This would present an intercut between Laketown/Smaug and Thorin/Azog. It would be of the likes as in the two towers of Helms Deep intercutting with Isengard and the Ents revenge. Just a thought I had. It would greatly greatly alter the books story, but I honestly would not mind it since Thorin and company would lack anything to do as Smaug terrorized Laketown. What might all of you think on the matter? This would in turn also give rise to the idea of Bolg avenging his father in film 3 and they do some combination of Beorn, Thorin's death, and Dain becoming King. As far as film 3 goes. I have no real idea just yet. I think film 2 will definitely give us our answer. Heck the trailer for film 2 might even tell us something.

It is the little things in life that keep the darkness at bay.


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 13 2013, 6:13pm

Post #8 of 19 (875 views)
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Many spoilers here. Re: who kills whom (?) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
... that Thorin gets to kill Azog and not the other way round. Actually, I could see it go either way. Thorin kills Azog, and then Bolg kills/mortally wounds Thorin before being offed by Beorn. Or, alternatively, Azog kills Thorin and is then killed by Dain, the Bolg/Beorn fight being something separate. Personally, I do hope it's more in vein of the first option. I mean, so far Thorin has not killed any significant foe, has he? Gandalf got the Goblin King, and Thorin didn't stand a chance against Azog when they did meet in AUJ. Bard gets to kill Smaug (I suppose, since that's the way it is in the book), and later Beorn kills Bolg (also, I suppose, because it's in the book). That leaves Thorin with...? Azog, presumably,


You laid it out very clearly. I want Thorin to have that satisfaction too.
This thread and all the options like one of Ro's ME Logic puzzles. (If A kills B and C isn't a Dwarf... and A has marvelous hair....)
If we do discard the familial relationship as has been suggested then two parallel vendettas can converge at BO5A. That gives us the appearance of Bolg and Azog both without a complicated story structure or the need for one to die to move forward. Closest to book (yes I credit Azog as a film insertion) and most satisfying would be Thorin gets Azog (is Azog's appearance what snaps Thorin out of the DS?) Bolg wounds Thorin, the Bodyguard kills the boys, Beorn bears Thorin away and then finishes off Bolg. (Thorin surving would be pretty darn satisfying too...but impure. I digress).
Hmm. Problem there is who or what is left for Dain? PJ is going to have to give Dain a big ol' heroic deed or we are just going to just hate it. REALLY hate it. Simply stomping (boaring?) about leading the charge after not supporting Thorin in the quest is just not enough.
1. So....what if both Orcs appear at BO5A
( Bolg first. Which consequently means Bolg will have to appear fairly early in DOS for the threat level to begin to rise. And we might see a "fell off a cliff" moment for Azogin DOS so his appearance at BO5A will be a surprise.) Then after Bolg is before the gate (?), making lots of noise (ie Thrain comments, etc.) and getting Thorin's attention Azog appears, after we all and Thorin (again) thought he was dead.

2. Thorin and Co. will spring from the Mountain (having seen Azog arrive, flashback of Azog and Thror snaps Thorin back to himself?). Both Orc storylines converge here and the Company led by Thorin faces them both. (Bolg bears some token of Thrain?) They do a heroic job of holding their own but cannot overcome either Orc and are pinned down. Thorin is wounded many times but stands. Both boys fall, one at a time. (sob)

3. Beorn suddenty appears and pulls down Bolg, settling that score. This gives Thorin the opening to strike at Azog. Azog falls .(yay. lumpy squiddy jerk)

4. It is Dain who carries Thorin from the fray to safety.
Yes Thorin sees the boys (sob again)

It gives Thorin a bit of personal victory before the end. True, he hasn't defeated any major foes yet, although he faced so many without fear; his legacy to date is leading his people to recovery and peace in the Blue Mountains. Which isn't nothing but doesn't get the blood pumping either.
Balin leaves for Moria, heartbroken ("my King is gone...") (sobbing continues)

It's all a puzzle now. We will need some more info clearly.
Having not read The Hobbit since Dec 10th I skimmed the last chapter this morning...anyone else finding this harder to read now? I sure am.

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.

(This post was edited by Brethil on Feb 13 2013, 6:16pm)


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Feb 13 2013, 10:21pm

Post #9 of 19 (568 views)
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This is close to my thinking [In reply to] Can't Post

This is for me is THE centre of the speculation of where we go from the Carrock. I am not convinced that Bolg will be Azog's son. It is a unique idea within Tolkiens world. It would require more exposition, who is Mrs Azog (sounds daft but wouldn't the global audience speculate on the nature of "orc children" ) , the orcs are Morgoths corruptions of Elves and do not exist without "Morgoths strain" at work in middle earth. To square the circle is dangerous and probably unnecessary.

Bolg as the torturer in the dungeons of DG s quiet clearly tied to the Necromencer, Dol Gulder and a confrontation with Gandalf. If the story arc for Dol Gulder is still completed in TDOS how could he survive the second movie. Well he could but why and doesn't that make his arc repetitive and lacking dynamic?

It has been explicitly made clear that Azog is the 3 film villain. Once we decided to tell Azog's story we needed three films - Pippa

Azog mortally wounds Thorin/Dain kills Azog makes a good deal of sense and draws Azog's full arc out of the appendices into the real time movie.

Azog will haress the company and this will keep the tension going but he will have Beorn and later the Elves to deal with and he is the natural leader to raise Gunderbad and march on Erebor.

This leaves Beorn a drift perhaps the big surprise of BOFA at the last moment is the re appearance of a Necromencer sponsered Bolg whom then completes the book arc. This would show the power of the Sauron and show his capacity to influence events from a distance and would fill the wise with forebodings that Sauron's retreat/defeat at DG was more a withdrawal than a real defeat and avoids overt intervention in TBOFA .

As Manuel said in Fawlty Towers i know nothing but its fun to speculate.

In Reply To
I would not be surprised if Azog and Bolg are not related (or at least not mentioned as being related in the movie). I do not believe PJ wants to get into the area of orcs having families (forgot where I uncovered that, maybe the docs in the EEs). Bolg may be the Necromencer's chief lieutenant in Dol Guldur (or more likely Azog is actually in line with the Necromencer; who probably healed Azog after the battle at Moria).


I tried to save the shire , and it has been but not for me.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Feb 13 2013, 11:13pm

Post #10 of 19 (580 views)
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I hope they don't try to void it. Azog and Bolg are only unique in that their kinship is mentioned and specified, [In reply to] Can't Post

but, Tolkien states clearly that Orcs had life and multiplied after the same manner of Elves and Men. Melkor, Sauron and Saruman's breedings of them with as yet unmutilated Elves and Men (with some of the earlier Elves likely having been mated forcibly with corrupted Maiar incarnated i.e. the Boldog types, clearly not those of Balrog level and nature) were excatly that, breeding programs. The nonesense of growing orcs from the ground was exactly nonsense, whooeey that Peter made up to be more PG. Beyond that, we don't need to meet Azog's mother any more than we ever meet Balin and Dwalin's or Thrain's or Thror's. It is enough to know that he must have had one. For all we know, she might not even have been an orc Shocked, as forced breedings had been policies of Melkor/Morgoth, Sauron and Saruman, and as the orcs themselves would certainly not have been shy of assaults of a sexual nature. The relevant relationship to the story and film is that Azog is his father. And if the notion of a hunk of an orc captain like Azog making babies is too much for some to think on. . . it isn't as if these movies would go all Game of Thrones and graphically depict the moment, so it need not be thought on with any focus.

Also, I don't know that Phillipa's words on the matter indicate that Azog will be in all three films, only that in order to include a larger story for him, three films would be needed. That could simply mean, if he wasn't going to spill over into the last film and barge in all over Bolg, Thorin and Beorn, there would need to be another movie even after Azog is done away with.

In Reply To
This is for me is THE centre of the speculation of where we go from the Carrock. I am not convinced that Bolg will be Azog's son. It is a unique idea within Tolkiens world. It would require more exposition, who is Mrs Azog (sounds daft but wouldn't the global audience speculate on the nature of "orc children" ) , the orcs are Morgoths corruptions of Elves and do not exist without "Morgoths strain" at work in middle earth. To square the circle is dangerous and probably unnecessary.

Bolg as the torturer in the dungeons of DG s quiet clearly tied to the Necromencer, Dol Gulder and a confrontation with Gandalf. If the story arc for Dol Gulder is still completed in TDOS how could he survive the second movie. Well he could but why and doesn't that make his arc repetitive and lacking dynamic?

It has been explicitly made clear that Azog is the 3 film villain. Once we decided to tell Azog's story we needed three films - Pippa

Azog mortally wounds Thorin/Dain kills Azog makes a good deal of sense and draws Azog's full arc out of the appendices into the real time movie.

Azog will haress the company and this will keep the tension going but he will have Beorn and later the Elves to deal with and he is the natural leader to raise Gunderbad and march on Erebor.

This leaves Beorn a drift perhaps the big surprise of BOFA at the last moment is the re appearance of a Necromencer sponsered Bolg whom then completes the book arc. This would show the power of the Sauron and show his capacity to influence events from a distance and would fill the wise with forebodings that Sauron's retreat/defeat at DG was more a withdrawal than a real defeat and avoids overt intervention in TBOFA .

As Manuel said in Fawlty Towers i know nothing but its fun to speculate.

In Reply To
I would not be surprised if Azog and Bolg are not related (or at least not mentioned as being related in the movie). I do not believe PJ wants to get into the area of orcs having families (forgot where I uncovered that, maybe the docs in the EEs). Bolg may be the Necromencer's chief lieutenant in Dol Guldur (or more likely Azog is actually in line with the Necromencer; who probably healed Azog after the battle at Moria).



"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Feb 13 2013, 11:21pm)


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Feb 14 2013, 1:08am

Post #11 of 19 (569 views)
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Other thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Since PJ is big on flashback and framing there will probably be some sort of prologue introducing some of these new characters, especially Dain. But that has to be done in a way that doesn't telegraph the deaths at the end of BoFA.
Although, there could be an epilogue that shows what happened to the remaining members of the company (Bombur is so fat it takes 6 young dwarves to carry him to his table) and there it can be explained that Balin goes off to Moria ( times are a little off here) and that Dain has become King Under the Mountain and fabulously wealthy.
Using the name Bolg for the torturer at Dol Guldur encourages us to connect him with Azog, but we don't have to. Azog may be a combination of himself and his son for purposes of the film and Bolg used as a name for the Dol Guldur character because the name appears in TH. Then again, as others have suggested, these characters may be being used to connect all the strands of the tale.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Feb 14 2013, 1:51am

Post #12 of 19 (540 views)
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The nonesense of growing orcs from the ground was exactly nonsense, whooeey that Peter made up to be more PG [In reply to] Can't Post

Now, now....those are some of my favourite moments! Love all that gooey, slicky, Orc Birth. Wish someone makes a movie called Life of an Orc!

"as if these movies would go all Game of Thrones and graphically depict the moment "

Thank you for the imagery...TongueUnimpressed

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

(This post was edited by Lusitano on Feb 14 2013, 1:52am)


Lio
Lorien


Feb 14 2013, 3:58am

Post #13 of 19 (609 views)
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Dwarves and Orcs and Beorn and BoFA (more book spoilers!) [In reply to] Can't Post

My initial thoughts were that Azog would be killed by Thorin in the second movie, leaving Bolg to seek revenge. Then Bolg would kill Thorin at the Battle of Five Armies and be killed by Beorn. (Simple enough, right?) Only now, I don't really think so; Azog must survive into the third movie at least, the way he's been set up.

I'm starting to doubt whether Thorin will be the one who kills him either, because there must be something for Dain to do and having him kill Azog instead would bring the story closer to what happens in the books. So what about Thorin? I honestly don't know, maybe his death will be the "noble sacrifice" type so that he won't have to kill anyone to have his heroic moment. This might also tie into his redemption somehow. This theory doesn't really allow for the Bolg-avenging-Azog's-death angle though, and I think the whole Bolg/Azog relationship must have some kind of payoff too. (As an aside, I don't think they'll change the part about Beorn killing Bolg, it's too iconic a book moment to mess around with. I hope! Crazy) Also, where do Fili and Kili come in?

At this point I'll stop and say that I'm tempted to make some webby, tangled diagram outlining all the different possibilities based on what we know from the books and movies. If there's anything to be said about the movie changes, it's that they've led to some fun speculation! Laugh

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Feb 14 2013, 7:41am

Post #14 of 19 (499 views)
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Filling In The Point [In reply to] Can't Post

You actually raise a number of points which this matter strays into.

In 45 years I, and I suspect most Tolkien book fans, have never been felt left wanting by Tolkiens poetic and large scale assertion about orc procreation.

PJ's uruk from mud bath however attempts to address it and thats the universe we are dealing with.

Also Tolkien was writing in the 40's and 50's when Games Of Thrones and the descent into the obvious at the expense of real drama was not on the horizon. These movies are being made in that climate.

So I would position my remarks against that back cloth. He Tolkien never got in close on this issue or felt it necessary whatever his large scale assertion, that was really my point.

It is a dilemma if you avoid it, you are not cannon to the 7 years olds childrens book. If you acknowledge it in the current aesthetic climate, do you not have to say more. I somehow feel the latter opens a can of worms but as always I will sit there and go with my instinct in December.

Incidentally its not quite the same as Balin's mum we know Dwarves procreate we know about Dwarven women somehow that feels like a given, whereas these handful of iconic evil figures are potentially more in the spot light and to the global audience require explanation once you play the father son routine. One point you allude to is Bolg is the result of a dwarven rape that would send the hatred, loathing and desire for revenge to another level and would infuse the key character stand offs within even more momentum but again it is straying. (well they have done that before some might say). My curiousity levels are rising!

I tried to save the shire , and it has been but not for me.


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 14 2013, 4:46pm

Post #15 of 19 (484 views)
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Exactly! And yes more spoilers.... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's like we either have too many Orc villains or not enough!!!!!
Maybe its an example of the perils of adaptation, because what works on paper is different that the visual story. Plus when Thorin is set up to be such a heroic figure even after he goes bonkers....what's left for Dain? Confusing confusing. Dain is already a behind-the-eight-ball in fan hearts because its hard to picture how he will feel like anything but a johnny come lately usurper....and the poor guy hasn't even gotten in a line yet!
So do we think Orc family or no family link?
And if there is a link...do we get Sonny's Revenge? So one Orc villain at BO5A.
No link...we see them both?
I looked at the pics of Bolg last night for first time and there is certainly a resemblance. But that could just be a Gundabad-y thing too.

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.


Lio
Lorien


Feb 14 2013, 11:38pm

Post #16 of 19 (509 views)
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Poor Thorin! And the Bolg/Azog connection (book spoilers continued!) [In reply to] Can't Post

I think they might very well intend for Thorin not to defeat Azog, leaving him to Dain instead. Besides being closer to the book, I think it would tie back to Thorin being defeated at the end of the first movie. I mean, when he walked off that tree, I think many were expecting him to kill Azog there. But, surprise, he got stomped rather easily! I think in a way this is the first of several failures that will pave the way for his madness later on. Not only will Thorin not get the gold, the Arkenstone, the throne, but he also won't be the one to defeat his own nemesis (either Azog or Smaug). And he will probably watch his nephews die defending him to complete the tragedy conga line. Poor Thorin! Unsure

Also, as for the Bolg/Azog relationship, I do believe that Bolg's action figure description confirms that he is Azog's son. So I think the only question is whether we will see this emphasized in the movies. As an aside, I don't think it was mentioned that Fili and Kili are Thorin's nephews in the first movie either. But no one is denying the connection, and it's assumed that it will be important later on. Maybe it's the same with Bolg and Azog?

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Lio
Lorien


Feb 15 2013, 12:06am

Post #17 of 19 (448 views)
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Saruman's Uruk-hai [In reply to] Can't Post

I know this is starting to stray from the original topic, but I believe the Uruk-hai "birthing" scenes in Isengard were there to explain how Saruman could raise up a thousands-strong army in a matter of days/weeks, rather than to deny the possibility of Orcs having families.

Also, it's been emphasized many time in the books that evil can't create, only corrupt. I don't much like the movies going against this so I'll put forward this possibility: maybe the "mud pits" were actually some mechanism used to twist existing creatures or make them age more quickly? Basically an evil incubator. Crazy

Even so, that's just for Saruman's Uruks so it's not relevant to the Azog/Bolg scenario either way. There must have been Orc-women in general and a Mrs Azog in particular (though I don't know if the movies will have anything to say about her... but now I almost kind of hope they do Laugh). All in all, I don't think it's any more unusual than there being female Wargs or spiders (hi, Shelob!) or any other baddie creature.

Anyway, this is an interesting topic so maybe I'll start another thread for it once I've had more time to organize my thoughts. Tongue

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 15 2013, 2:54am

Post #18 of 19 (420 views)
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Thank you! I didn't know that about the figures. [In reply to] Can't Post

Didn't know about the figure info stating the relationship. So It should appear somehow...so maybe we will have the Death of Azog and vengeance after all. OR two Orcs at BO5A. So potentially leaving Azog for Dain Or Bolg for Dain, but not both. If both presumably Beorn gets a swipe in. In addition I'm trusting that whatever Dain does it has to be something REALLY worthwhile.
I too am very afraid for Thorin that similar to The Hobbit text and so often with Tolkien's blighted heroes that the final, sweet glory is denied them. Frown The redemptive sacrifice. That Child of the kindly West line is going to be a real killer if they use it. And I bet just like on the Carrock he's going to ask for the halfling...

(As for the tree I: think he walked off as a choice of deaths, as opposed to expecting to win. PLUS when you add in those Wargs it changes the whole dynamic.)

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Feb 15 2013, 11:03am

Post #19 of 19 (593 views)
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Uruk Hai & more on Bolg [In reply to] Can't Post

I need to return to the TTT text, the book is currently in storage so is not to hand but I am certain there is some sense in the book that Saruman has bred/improved/interferred with the U H rather than they have improved by natural selection.

If you make something of the Azog/Bolg father son connection and Bolg or Azog go early you can bring the grief of kinship into both sides of the story. So either Azog or Bolg are seeking revenge for the loss of their son/ father.

or

If you want to retain the focus on Thorin and Azig /Bolg is mere fact with no exposition.

Film 1 has set up the the Azog Thorin arc through Thrors death.

Film 2 can set up the Bolg Thorin arc through Thrains capture and subsequent torture by Bolg.

If Thorin is confronted by both at the Five Armies ( we have already seen them fighting together at BofA) taunting him about his grand father and father that could set in motion the sequence of madness on the battlefield that replicates all of Tolkiens interactions. The only bit that needs to be filled in with this option is Bolg surviving TBoDG.

I tried to save the shire , and it has been but not for me.

 
 

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