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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Elrond and Glamdring
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Tintallė
Gondor


Feb 14 2013, 2:41am

Post #26 of 36 (248 views)
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Honestly, I think it's more a case of [In reply to] Can't Post

finders keepers. The swords have been lost for a long time and have now passed to Gandalf and Thorin. I can't imagine Elrond demanding their return for display. They are far more useful as tools in the hands of his allies, meaning those who fight against the dark and evil things in the world. Gandalf is one of the guardians of Middle Earth and he is aiding Thorin on his quest. I think that would be quite enough for Elrond.

As for the other comments about Narsil, it is the sword that was broken and it's just a matter of time before it is reforged for Isildur's heir, who just happens to live at Rivendell. Elrond is Narsil's guardian, not its owner.


cats16
Valinor

Feb 14 2013, 5:17am

Post #27 of 36 (253 views)
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I just watched this clip on youtube... [In reply to] Can't Post

and the exact part where Elrond could have spoken about Glamdring is when we cut to Balin and Bilbo talking about Sting. This could have been a similar device to that of the blue wizards. I think this cut of dialogue may show it.


Tintallė
Gondor


Feb 14 2013, 7:07am

Post #28 of 36 (249 views)
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You can still hear Elrond in the background [In reply to] Can't Post

saying that the swords were made for the goblin wars in the First Age. I lose the dialogue after that because I'm laughing about the letter opener.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Feb 14 2013, 1:31pm

Post #29 of 36 (230 views)
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'AUJ' avoids the whole issue... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Tolkien added these facts to the swords after the Hobbit and it's now a minor plot hole. There is just no way that Elrond would have let Thorin use his families weapon for this quest, at the very least without acknowledging how generous he is being by letting him do so.



The truth is that movie-Elrond isn't given a say in the matter since the company sneaks off without anyone but Gandalf being the wiser.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


stoutfiles
Rohan


Feb 14 2013, 6:17pm

Post #30 of 36 (208 views)
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They had to leave at some point [In reply to] Can't Post

Was Elrond just trying to muster up the courage to announce the sword belonged to his family?

However you spin it Thorin would leave at some point with a sword that Elrond should value, and after meeting Thorin he should have known the quest was going to happen regardless.


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Feb 14 2013, 9:24pm

Post #31 of 36 (219 views)
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That is Brilliant [In reply to] Can't Post

What a great observation. My hope for this scene was that Elrond would acknowledge his relationship to the sword and say something like "I can think of no better person to wield it now." BTW it is possible that Gandalf knew Turgon. He could have met him in Valinor before the Flight of the Noldor.


Hun200kmh
The Shire


Feb 15 2013, 8:27pm

Post #32 of 36 (240 views)
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book-Narsil and movie-Narsil [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with the "finders keepers" comment.

About Narsil, do remember that it being kept on some sort of altar at Rivendell is a jackson-walsh-boyens invention.

I do love the Prancing Pony scene when Aragorn shows the broken sword to the hobbits. It's so profound, in so many ways ... but I understand movie audiences would just laugh at it


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Feb 15 2013, 11:01pm

Post #33 of 36 (198 views)
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Elrond knew this would be a powerful token of good will between Elves and Dwarves, [In reply to] Can't Post

and might presage a return to better relations among them. Certainly it would dispell the notion in the mind of a dwarven king and his near of kin that all Elves were alike (not that Thranduil or any Elf could have easily done much against Smaug).

And, again, Elrond would have known the folly of covetousness and of avarice over worldy troves. Feanor's sons were driven to ruin and caused the ruin of many others in their adherence to an oath which placed the work of their father's hands above all other things, kin, love, well being and reason. Pettiness seldom ends well. Elrond was wise and generous, and he trusted in the wisdom of Gandalf. If you have trouble seeing Elrond leaving the sword in Thorin's keeping, I have a harder time seeing him challenging an honourable guest, brought in the company of a wise and reverened friend whose true Holy Nature he knew, over a sword that had been lost and in the keeping of the creatures of Morgoth for thousands of years. Even had he wanted the sword (and he may have), and even had he dissapproved of Thorin's quest, to quibble over the blade would still have been a petty thing to do. Thranduil might have done it, or Thingol when he turned away from the Wisdom of Melian. Curfin and Celegorm would have done it. But not Elrond.

In Reply To
Was Elrond just trying to muster up the courage to announce the sword belonged to his family?

However you spin it Thorin would leave at some point with a sword that Elrond should value, and after meeting Thorin he should have known the quest was going to happen regardless.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Feb 15 2013, 11:02pm

Post #34 of 36 (204 views)
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Gandalf knew all of the Elves, even if they did not always know him [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

In Reply To
What a great observation. My hope for this scene was that Elrond would acknowledge his relationship to the sword and say something like "I can think of no better person to wield it now." BTW it is possible that Gandalf knew Turgon. He could have met him in Valinor before the Flight of the Noldor.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


cats16
Valinor

Feb 16 2013, 4:41am

Post #35 of 36 (174 views)
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Thanks! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Tintallė
Gondor


Feb 16 2013, 5:14am

Post #36 of 36 (378 views)
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Well yes, there was no Narsil shrine in the book [In reply to] Can't Post

but at the time of The Hobbit I don't think Aragorn was carrying it around with him yet; he was younger, 60-plus years before the fellowship of the ring. Elrond was Narsil's guardian until Aragorn turned 20. I think Aragorn was still just a lad when Gandalf first learned of Gollum, which he did only after Bilbo had returned home from his adventures and had finally owned up to the real story of how he had acquired his magic ring.

On the other hand I may have my timelines completely wrong!

Aragorn certainly would not have gotten far in the LOTR movies brandishing a broken sword, so I understand why the shrine was created for Rivendell but I, too, love the book Aragorn who is proud of his heritage (but not arrogant) and confident that his blade will be reforged for the great battle ahead. I do get a little weary of him rehashing his lineage to all and sundry but oh well - I love him anyway!

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