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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"Arson, Murder and Life-saving" -- Thorin's cliched speech
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Roheryn
Grey Havens

Jan 31 2013, 7:55am

Post #51 of 60 (213 views)
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Effortlessly being Thorin. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
while Thorin is simply just... there. Yes, PJ has him perform some majetic poses, intense stares and hair tossing, but minus those, he is kind of just there on the screen, being Thorin, and being very effortless about it. Now, I don't know anything about acting, I'm just giving my impressions (and not comparing the two in terms of quality).




Yes, that's it -- RA can stand around just being Thorin and makes it look effortless. I managed to watch a bit of the production video that cartermoulton linked to the other day (dial-up connection at home makes downloading videos nearly impossible), and one bit in it was where the dwarves are sitting around the table in Bag End with Thorin sitting at the head, around the point in the movie where they're looking at the map. This bit of video footage was clearly between takes, or before they'd started doing actual filming, and the camera is looking right at RA while a couple of people discuss things behind him about how they should do things when they start shooting; there's even more people in the background milling about, lots of organized chaos going on, the other dwarves don't look like they're particularly being dwarfish -- but RA is completely, absolutely in character. It isn't RA sitting at the table, it's Thorin. And they're clearly nowhere close to actually filming. I read an interview with him somewhere where he said that he always entered the set in character, in full costume; it was really important to him that everyone on set BELIEVE he was Thorin, and he hated to have to go on set with his makeup/hair partially done -- he'd put his hood up if he had to go on like that so no one could see him. Neat interview, and interesting to read his approach to being the character. I think it shows, and it was really noticeable to me in that one bit of production footage.


Súlimë
Rivendell


Jan 31 2013, 7:56am

Post #52 of 60 (199 views)
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I think [In reply to] Can't Post

they will develop the relationship between Thorin and Bilbo further and by the end of the 2nd movie have Thorin actually (consciously or not) consult Bilbo on important matters. This is of course based on nothing (apart from wishful thinking on my part), but I feel that with the direction the movie version is going, trust and friendship will become a big theme.


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Jan 31 2013, 9:56am

Post #53 of 60 (189 views)
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I'm not sure... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin's known the dwarves that are with him for...how many years? Certainly Balin and Dwalin have been close to him for pretty much his whole life. He clearly consults with, and trusts, Balin; but I don't get the feeling that he consults with Dwalin over decision-making, and Dwalin has got to be one of his most-trusted, and staunchest, supporters. Thorin doesn't seem like he takes advice easily from anyone, even a wizard, with the possible exception of Balin (even with Balin, though, while he listens, he doesn't necessarily follow the advice). So, given the length of his relationships with these others, and the fact that Thorin still doesn't take advice from them, it's hard for me to imagine that he's going to suddenly start consulting with Bilbo, no matter how much Bilbo has done for them all. I agree that trust and friendship will likely prove a big theme, but I think Thorin can trust Bilbo to carry his own weight, as it were, in the company, without Thorin consulting with him on things. He's too majestic for that!


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Jan 31 2013, 2:02pm

Post #54 of 60 (174 views)
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Grumpy is OK [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin's movie self could be described as "grumpy", at times. He does snap at people when they annoy him in whatever way. Kili's ribbing of Bilbo about Orc raids provokes one such moment. Gandalf's insistence they should go to Rivendell before the Troll scene another. (And personally I feel that Thorin would not have expressed himself quite so frankly/hurtfully to Bilbo in the aftermath of the Stone Giants scene if that scene had been less horrific. I think he was blowing off steam there.) What should not persist in DoS in my opinion is his misjudgment of Bilbo as useless and not a "real" member of the Company.


Old Toby
Gondor


Jan 31 2013, 3:44pm

Post #55 of 60 (169 views)
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yes, RA was Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

pretty much off camera as well as on. He, RA, is much like Viggo in his approach to acting. I read where he tried to stay in character even off set, mostly because he never knew when he would be called, and he didn't want to have to get into character at the last minute. So Thorin he was. If I recall correctly, Viggo was the same way with Aragorn.

(BTW I just purchased the BBC miniseries of "North and South" starring RA, just because I wanted to see more of what he had done, having been smitten with his Thorin. It was out in 2004, and from what I read got rave reviews, so I'm looking forward to watching it this weekend.)

Oh, and as I've stated elsewhere, I love the Thorin/Bilbo scene at the end!! Love his speech leading us and Bilbo in one direction, then his admission of error and hug, taking us in another. Oh, and his smile. Can't forget that! And please don't get me started on his hair! (LOL! LOVE his hair! and RA stated he actually liked it too!) Smile

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Arandiel
Grey Havens

Jan 31 2013, 7:59pm

Post #56 of 60 (144 views)
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My impression of Thorin is similar, [In reply to] Can't Post

but very much influenced by life with someone I'm close to. He's a strong, creative genius, and nobody can tell him anything. He always has to find out for himself (sometimes the hard way) why things are the way they are. Extremely resistant to others' counsel. Hmm... maybe that's why I empathize with Balin, trying to get Thorin to listen to sense before he has to have it knocked into him. Sometimes it's funny, mostly it's annoying; but it also gets scary at times, knowing that the stakes of not listening are bigger than he realizes they are.


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Súlimë
Rivendell


Feb 1 2013, 7:56am

Post #57 of 60 (120 views)
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You're probably right [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm just desperate for any kind of interaction between Bilbo and Thorin. Right now they don't even really speak to each other.

Plus, since technically Bilbo is not one of Thorin's 'people', I'm hoping that Thorin would slip up at some point and reveal some vulnerability when they are alone. Who wouldn't want to confide in a nice, gentle Hobbit! :P

This might be a bit off-topic, but Martin Freeman is capable of bringing in a lot of good, honest energy. In Sherlock, I feel that Sherlock takes a lot of comfort in Watson's grounded goodness, which is something Bilbo has as well. I wish there can be some sort of this subtle relationship between Thorin and Bilbo :)


Súlimë
Rivendell


Feb 1 2013, 8:12am

Post #58 of 60 (109 views)
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My bad [In reply to] Can't Post

For some reason I took 'grumpy' to mean 'grumpy about Bilbo being there'.

I totally agree with you though.

Also about the Stone GIants -- I agree! I think Thorin was pretty shaken from 1) thinking he has lost a nephew and 2) slipping when trying to help Bilbo, and just wanted to lash out at something.


aarondirebear
Bree

Feb 12 2013, 8:42pm

Post #59 of 60 (84 views)
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Wasn't in the book [In reply to] Can't Post

It wasn't in the book, that is all I should have to say about it.
It forced character development onto Thorin far too soon, for one thing.
But most of the issues with it have already been said with more eloquence by others.

"Others are inclined to say that any two stories that are built round the same folk-lore motive, or are made up of a generally similar combination of such motives, are "the same stories." Statements of that kind are not true, they are not true in art or literature. It is precisely the colouring, the atmosphere, the unclassifiable individual details of a story, and above all the general purport that informs with life the undissected bones of the plot, that really count." J.R.R. Tolkien


aarondirebear
Bree

Feb 12 2013, 8:45pm

Post #60 of 60 (153 views)
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he's supposed to gain that trust [In reply to] Can't Post


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It will make the Thorin's decline and his treatment of Bilbo MORE impactful. We can see how much he trusts Bilbo now, and when Bilbo gives the Arkenstone to the "enemy" (in his mind), he will feel even more betrayed. I think this scene added a depth to his character that wasn't there before...he's not just a stoney, would-be king who only cares about reclaiming his kingdom, he has a "soft" side (for lack of a better word) that doesn't come out very often, but it's there. I think this will make his downfall even more heartbreaking, because even though he's stubborn, he's not completely unreasonable...and he will become so with the dragon sickness.


He was supposed to gain that trust during the Mirkwood arc.

"Others are inclined to say that any two stories that are built round the same folk-lore motive, or are made up of a generally similar combination of such motives, are "the same stories." Statements of that kind are not true, they are not true in art or literature. It is precisely the colouring, the atmosphere, the unclassifiable individual details of a story, and above all the general purport that informs with life the undissected bones of the plot, that really count." J.R.R. Tolkien

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