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Director for the new "Star Wars" Movie announced
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Malveth
Rivendell

Jan 27 2013, 6:47pm

Post #51 of 66 (157 views)
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ESB [In reply to] Can't Post

My least favorite SW film.

A minority opinion, I know, but I don't think ESB is anywhere near the "best".


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 27 2013, 6:52pm

Post #52 of 66 (172 views)
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Movies, Abrams, and novel continuations---a new hope [In reply to] Can't Post

In speaking with my resident Star Trek/Star Wars expert (Mr. the Green), who had worried that the timeline of the upcoming Star Wars movies will negate the SW Expanded Universe novels that have been published by Del Rey and LucasBooks over the years, he did give me a ray of hope that I can share with you.

The new Star Trek movie directed by Abrams came out in 2009. There have been hundreds of novels based on Star Trek published over the past years (however I don't know if there is the same oversight that SW novels got from Lucas). Now that the ST timeline has changed in the 2009 movie--presumably to be continued in the upcoming Into Darkness--it appears the ST novels are continuing nonetheless with the "original" timeline intact. I suspect, if it hasn't happened already, that there will be novels based on the new ST timeline, in addition to the original.

So the "hope" is, even with the new SW movies, that the Expanded Universe will also continue. Honestly I can't see them stopping such a money-maker as the Expanded Universe!

Of course, it is only speculation (and the fretting of an avid fan) that there will be impact on the novels; but to those who have shared the same concerns, this may be reassuring. Only time will tell. Wink

There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 27 2013, 7:12pm

Post #53 of 66 (152 views)
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I'm not sure what revelation you're looking for. [In reply to] Can't Post

I truly understand you wanting to be able to keep all your EU and to not have the films contradict that. And I really think the EU is so complex and evolved by now that it's going to stay mostly intact. But more than that, I'm not going to worry about it until it's been confirmed one way or another.

But I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree because I've honestly only read one EU book. I think if Episodes 7-9 don't scrap the post-ROTJ EU, I'll probably read the Thrawn trilogy because I've heard it's quite excellent.

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Sunflower
Valinor

Jan 27 2013, 7:21pm

Post #54 of 66 (162 views)
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Well, this is a can of worms and no mistake. [In reply to] Can't Post

So Lucas sells off Skywalker Ranch but maintains control of the EU. So I take it there *is* going to be a "Lucas Estate"? I assume this can be the only reason. Translation: his kids can continue to make money off of things they didn't write. The great hope of many fans at this point, and when we first heard about the sale to Disney, was that this would ease the stranglehold Lucas had over the EU so that elements of fan work might someday make its way onscreen. This isn't a situation like the Tolkien Estate, where I agree with the author of the essay on the Homepage who sides with Christopher Tolkien's statements from July. It's more complex than that.

First, I feel that fans have a right to feel this way about Lucas, since among authors of modern fandoms, he has assumed the unhappy position of the one being perhaps the most antogonistic or even hositle to his fans over the yrs. In addition to a long litany of complaints over creative decisions, DVD releases and revisions of previous work (which in one case Lucas concluded the fans were right, but only partially revised his own revision) there has never been any sort of a real "thank you for making me filthy rich" which other fans have gotten from other authors/directors ver the yrs. Take Trek. While Gene was still alive, he too had an ambivalent relationship with fans at times, but at least Trekkers can point to things like the "background crew" of the Enterprise in the "Star Trek: The Motionless Picture" being members of the old Trek Fan Club. Some even had brief speaking parts. It may not have meant much to Gene, but it gave fans great delight and the feeling that their enthusiasm was appreciated. And there's the example of Frank Herbert's son Brian collaberating with Kevin Andserson (who also dabbled in the EU) on the new Dune novels. But Lucas has, it seems,has fought with the fans tooth and nail all the way. it has certianly soured relations over the yrs. The only time he has responded in any kind of a direct positive way was putting Yoda onscreen with a lightsaber. If Lucas had gone out of his way to achknowledge the fans in any positive way, we might have been able to forgive him for some things, or at least not callhim all the dirty names we call him (or post comments in our footers like "Show me the money!")

After all, it's not like he has a "holier than thou" attitude when it comes to his friends. He put a gallery full of "ET's" in the Galactic Senate, right? If he throws a little crumb of "thank you" to his buddy Spielberg, why can't he make the fans feel like more than peons?

If there's going to be a "Lucas Estate" overseeing creative control of anything that goes onscreen, whether TV or movies (and we have assume Disney will mine this franchise forever; they will want new characters for their SW Theme park) at some point there is going to be a conflict over this. If there's a Lucas Estate then Tiger will play the Christopher role (I forget her real name, but her childhood nick Tiger is what fans know her by; she was the baby adopted by Lucas and Marcia when they were still married, and she's around 30 now) and after Lucas dies, she will have to be approached by any Disney-appointed director for script approvals. The interesting thing is, the "first generation" directors like JJ Abrams, who is 40 and part of the "first generation" fans who still have the residual awe and respect for Lucas, will meekly respect any creative decision taken by a Lucas Estate; but the "second generation" fans who willhave to deal with the Estate after Lucas is dead, may not have such residual respect; 1) b/c Lucas is dead and 2) they're part of the generation that was shaped by watch the Prequels in the theater, and don't share that infalliable opinion of Lucas's work. At some point the notion of having to abide by the rules dictated by an Estate whose members didn't wrtie a word of what is likely to go onscreen, may make things interesting. How many story treatments/scripts will Lucas leave behind dealing with future eras? Should direcotrs in future years and decades have to abide by the guidelines of those, and how much freedom should they have? I can oeven forsee a coirt challenge coming down the road, esp as this may be the Lucas descendants' sole income. it's much more compicated than the Tolkien Estate.


(This post was edited by Sunflower on Jan 27 2013, 7:24pm)


Sunflower
Valinor

Jan 27 2013, 7:45pm

Post #55 of 66 (141 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

there you go. You've only read one of the books, so your opinion can't be informed. Likewise, I don't feel I have any authoirty to talk about Trek, since I've only read one or two of the Trek novels at least 15 yrs ago, and while I'm a fan, I am familar with only most of the onscreen stuff, I don't consider myself a Trekker. I still haven't seen most of the Next Generation series, and none of stuff like Deep Space Nine , though I know the general stuff. This is an interesting question about Trek though. How do Trek authors justify going on with the "origional timeline" when it's been contradicted onscreen? B/c JJ's work comes after Gene is dead, so they feel Gene's work will always be the "real thing"? Again, it's different when the author is still alive.

Maybe "revelation" is the wrong word. Well, maybe not. The "revelation" would be that along with the decision to sell off his empire and give most of the proceds to charity, Lucas has changed his ways and decided NOT to contnue to try to "reassert control". Or at least soften his attitude to fans...IMO the Disney sale changed everything. he implied he was putting his franchise into "safe" hands, then he shouldn't ssume he retains sole creative control either.

If Lucas wasn't the "Creative Advisor" (or whatever his advisor title is) then I wouldn't be worried, at least about the script. I don't like JJ's visual style, the same way many people didn't like Tom Hooper's visual style for Les Miz or other of his films (extreme closeups, camera won't stand still, insane swooping tracking shots, etc.) I have full faith in his abilties as a storyteller..IF Lucas gives him the freedom. But people think that, for example, he won't have a role in what we see onscreen like he "stepped back" when Kersh directed ESB. Wrong. Lucas took one look at the origional 3-hr cut of ESB, told kersh "you're ruining my movie!" and had it chopped to 2 hrs, in the process cutting out a lot of dialogie and putting in the "faster, more intense stuff. I'm afriad Lucas won't be able to let go, any more than Peter did when Del Toro had TH. if Lucas can resist the tempation to be on the sets, we might get something good. It might be harder for him to do, now that he knows he doesn't run the ship anymore. He might feel he has one last chance to leave his imprint. It's easy to let go of your work on paper or in a boardroom, but when the knowledge finally sinks home that someone is actually out there filming something you have given up most control of...I'm still afraid he might try to meddle.

Well, I guess I'll have to wait and see...in the meantime, it is great to have something geeky to look forward to in the theater when TH is over!


(This post was edited by Sunflower on Jan 27 2013, 7:52pm)


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 27 2013, 7:53pm

Post #56 of 66 (141 views)
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Something geeky to look forward to! [In reply to] Can't Post

Absolutely agree with that, even if we don't agree on anything else! Smile

I've read lots of the post-Jedi EU on the star wars wiki, so I actually know much of the basics of the story going forward. I've just never given it a read - possibly because I wouldn't even know where to begin.

I know nothing about Star Trek. Angelic

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Sunflower
Valinor

Jan 27 2013, 8:15pm

Post #57 of 66 (152 views)
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But [In reply to] Can't Post

the difference is that most of the Trek novels were probably written after Gene's death, so it's easier for authors to not think that what they write might someday be contradicted onscreen in a script by Gene as heresy. Since Gene never had any active (shepherding role) in the creation of most the Trek EU, it's easier for fans to continue to develop something has always been fully theirs. Again, we have no fears that the SW EU will continue. It will continue to expand, both vertically and horizontally, so to speak, and someday authors will have to kill off Luke Han and Leia and their generation, if they haven't already. The problem is, Lucas has unwittingly 'allowed" a second and apparently now third fan-created generation to become cinematically real in the eyes of the fans. Since this has hapened while he is alive, there's no ay fans have ever felt that the EU is completely theirs. I don't know how importat the expanded Trekverse is to fans, but the media over the yrs have given a great deal of attention to events in the SW EU, treating them with as much importance as if they'd actually been screen revelations. Chewie's death for example. That got a huge amount of attention and I know the media pressed Lucas for comment.


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 27 2013, 8:30pm

Post #58 of 66 (183 views)
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Tangled in a web of my own weaving! [In reply to] Can't Post

To be honest, I've only read a couple of books from each (ST and SW), mostly out of boredom, and my information comes from Mr. the Green and I haven't convinced him to comment on this forum! So I do not have answers, and will have to wait until more information becomes available. Perhaps others here will be able to give more extensive perspectives. For me, the TV shows and movies (Star Trek) and movies (Star Wars) are "canon", and the books just side trips, so to speak. My area of expertise is Tolkien! Blush

There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 28 2013, 6:49pm

Post #59 of 66 (133 views)
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Not a fan of Abrams [In reply to] Can't Post

But we'll see. He likes collecting other people's ideas. I hope he doesn't get lazy with it and kill off whole chunks of culture like he did in Star Trek. (Yeah yeah its a parallel universe...still lazy)


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Jan 29 2013, 6:04am

Post #60 of 66 (128 views)
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My memory isn't so great :P [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't remember many details from Dune, but then, it was so complex and multi-layered I'm sure much went over my pointy 12? 13? year old head. I got some of it, and sensed that there was a lot more going on than I quite understood, but I'm sure there was yet more that didn't register at all. But, yes, definitely prescient. Dune will have to go on my re-read list.

And thanks for the suggestions. The Han Solo trilogy sounds like a good place to start. Smile

"The question isn't where, Constable, but when." - Inspector Spacetime


julia0925
The Shire


Jan 29 2013, 9:32pm

Post #61 of 66 (96 views)
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Love Abrams [In reply to] Can't Post

From Alias, to LOST, to the Star Trek reboot, I really like what he does. He's better at the ensemble than a lot of people as well. Course we will have to see his buddy Greg (I forget his last name, but he was in Alias and Heros, and flew the plane in the first episode of LOST). I think I'd only be happier if they'd handed the Star Wars franchise over to Joss Whedon.

Hey, maybe he'll make it in 48 fps, like PJ, and then we'd be able to follow all the action with no trouble! :)

-----
Lotr: You know it's been a bad day when even the elf is smudged.
TH: when the going gets tough, the tough call the eagles.


julia0925
The Shire


Jan 29 2013, 9:38pm

Post #62 of 66 (94 views)
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I read many of the SW books... [In reply to] Can't Post

... until the New Jedi Order ruined it for me. The best authors have been mentioned in a previous post, and I agree with most of what was said there. I did rather dislike Rogue Planet--only book I've ever read where I'd get up and walk away in the middle of a sentance and then realize that I had done that. Such a boring book for me.

I am kind of hoping they disregard anything from the books that really doesn't fit with Lucas' vision, though. Mostly because I absolutely hated the Yuzzan Vong, but also because Lucas tells a good tale. Doesn't always execute it well, which is why the movies he didn't direct are so much better than the ones he did, but there you go. IMHO

-----
Lotr: You know it's been a bad day when even the elf is smudged.
TH: when the going gets tough, the tough call the eagles.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jan 29 2013, 10:06pm

Post #63 of 66 (100 views)
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I don't think [In reply to] Can't Post

that 48fps compensates for the horrors of shaky cam Wink

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 30 2013, 10:21pm

Post #64 of 66 (79 views)
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Good thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

1. The best Star Wars movie (certainly a great movie, even if you don't agree it was the best) was written by Lawrence Kasden, and directed by Irvin Kershner. A writer with a great handle on characters first and foremost, and a strong director. Here with Michael Arndt and JJ we have the same thing. I love Star Trek 09, the few problems I had with it were script problems, and I blame Orci/Kurtzman for their often cliche ridden approach to character (they wrote transformers). They won't be involved in this film, thank god (a lot of people hate on Damon Lindelof, but I think the fact he has a writing credit on the next Star Trek bodes well for the film, as Orci/Kurtzman aren't of his caliber).

I'm glad someone saw those writing flaws with Abrams Trek. Those guys were hacks. This writing team is stronger, agreed.


2. J.J. won't make a green screen movie. He just doesn't shoot that way. The way he blends effects, stunts, and reality, is fantastic. Proof? The pilot episode of LOST is full of incredible things happening, and yet you never feel aware of digital effects, and the focus is totally on the characters. And he did that on a TV budget. This will definitely be his biggest budget yet.

Doesn't matter how they do it, so long as the piece is character driven, not canvas driven.

3. Kathleen Kennedy is running Lucasfilm, and as a producer she's spent her whole career with Steven Spielberg. This says to me that this film won't suffer from (as much as any movie of this size can avoid) the studio whitewashing the forces the artist's hand. She's spent her whole career trusting artists to do what they do best.

She's handled some big properties, true enough.

4. This choice reveals that they don't just want to make a film for children or teenagers. Imagine the kind of directors they could so easily have a made a totally saleable/commercial movie with, one totally created to sell toys, not tell a story. Whatever you think of JJ, you can't accuse him of having that approach.

I am mostly alone in my mild dislike of his Star Trek. People ripped choices about the Hobbit on this board, I could start to sound like some of those posters if we really started talking about his choices for the Star Trek franchise. I can hardly wait to hear the howls from die-hards on the stylistic changes he makes. His Star Trek did seem like a long TV episode to me. Some people might like that, but I didn't.

5. The man loves Star Wars. Passionately. It seems like Lucas by the time he was making the prequels really kind of despised his own creation. It'll be fantastic to have someone as thrilled to be working in this world as Lucas was when he made the original Star Wars.

Well, he as much as said he didn't like Star Trek, but he seized the chance to make money with the brand. This is another brand to him. I don't believe the guy has a soul...at all. As much as we despise what Lucas did, once a company is not longer headed by its founders, it suffers. He probably understands the big task he's taking on, so I've no doubt he wants it to be successful and not a big flop. That much I can believe.

6. J.J. is not a Michael Bay style slickster. He likes complex sets, real stunts, and a sense of reality in his films. He takes genre movies as seriously as he possibly can, which in my opinion is the approach that made Empire so great.

He's more skilled, I agree.

7. His lens flare phase is over. There are no lens flares in the Into Darkness trailer.

I don't really care about that. You obviously like what he's done in his career.


In general, he's younger and has much more drive and ego to get it done. That alone will help the franchise. Is he a visionary? I don't think he's of that mold, but it's certainly going to be nice to see the franchise revived, regardless.


Cuwen Maegmacil
Rivendell

Jan 31 2013, 7:48pm

Post #65 of 66 (68 views)
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I'm excited about a new director! [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved the way George Lucas handled all SIX movies(even though I'm probably the only oneTongue) but the idea of different director with a different view is enticing!

As embarrassing as it is, I haven't seen anything directed by Abrams.Blush His resume is very impressive though and I'd like to see the Star Trek movies and possibly the FIRST Hunger Games. I have absolutely no intentions of seeing Catching Fire or Mockingjay!

I've heard that George Lucas sold LucasFilm to Disney! If this is true, I find it worrying! Star Wars deserves to be categorized with adult movies not High School Musical and Lady and the Tramp! Does this make Princess Leia a "Disney Princess"?!?!?!? That's going a bit too far, I think!

Anyway, I think it will be good for the movie to have J.J. Abrams at the helm! I fully intend to see Episode 7 when it comes to theaters!


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Feb 6 2013, 3:37am

Post #66 of 66 (100 views)
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Stand alone "Star Wars" movies? [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting:

http://social.entertainment.msn.com/...33-85ce-434b3486ef8d

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'

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