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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Witch-king flashback during WC sequence

lembas_muncher
The Shire

Jan 21 2013, 6:05am

Post #1 of 16 (989 views)
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Witch-king flashback during WC sequence Can't Post

I know it's already more than a stretch that PJ will include such sequence but i would have liked to see a flashback shown on how the witch-king was entombed, interlaced while Galadriel was narrating his history. But then again that will stray TH too far. PJ did a good job portraying him in Rotk, his coronation while Gandalf was telling his story to Pippin gave me chills. Oh well, enough of this make believing. :-)


(This post was edited by lembas_muncher on Jan 21 2013, 6:07am)


easterlingchief1
Rivendell


Jan 21 2013, 6:17am

Post #2 of 16 (460 views)
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What do you mean by "WC Sequence?" [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 21 2013, 6:22am

Post #3 of 16 (419 views)
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White Council, I imagine. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think perhaps lembas muncher is hoping for an inserted flashback during the White Council in the Extended Edition.

Silverlode






Mooseboy018
Gondor


Jan 21 2013, 6:42am

Post #4 of 16 (406 views)
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I'd like to see that too. [In reply to] Can't Post

Since it's completely made up, I have a hard time imagining how it actually happened. When they "sealed his body" in the tomb, what exactly does that mean? Was the Witch King not a wraith yet in the movie's universe when Angmar fell? Is it implying that the the wraithing process of his ring of power didn't play into it at all, and it was just Sauron raising him from the dead/summoning his spirit out of the tomb?


lembas_muncher
The Shire

Jan 21 2013, 6:46am

Post #5 of 16 (392 views)
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oh [In reply to] Can't Post

the white council sequence :-)


moreorless
Rohan

Jan 21 2013, 6:51am

Post #6 of 16 (405 views)
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It doesnt seem that unlikely to me.... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I know it's already more than a stretch that PJ will include such sequence but i would have liked to see a flashback shown on how the witch-king was entombed, interlaced while Galadriel was narrating his history. But then again that will stray TH too far. PJ did a good job portraying him in Rotk, his coronation while Gandalf was telling his story to Pippin gave me chills. Oh well, enough of this make believing. :-)


I think a couple of things point towards this being possible....

1.Every Jackson Tolkien film thus far has started with a flashback, the three obvious ones tied to the story for me are Smaug's attack, the Orc/Dwaven wars and Bard's history and two of them have already been used up.

2.The detailed comments about the Witch King's tomb in AUJ, Jackson likes to add a bit of extraneous detail but generally things are not mentioned so clearly and dymaticaly unless theres some kind of payoff down the line.

I could definately see either TDOS or TABA using a quick history of the Witch King as an opening, which one would I'd guess depend on how and when he's used in the story. The two most obvious uses to me seems to be....

1.As a major confrontation in an attack on Dol Guldor with Sauron himself viewed as more pulling the strings rather than possesing great power.

2.As the leader of the Orcs in the BOT5A, I can hear the howls of book readers as I type that but it does seem an obvious way to draw the two sides of the story together and have a climax on the level of LOTR.


(This post was edited by moreorless on Jan 21 2013, 6:54am)


jimmyfenn
Rohan


Jan 21 2013, 10:46am

Post #7 of 16 (348 views)
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flashbacks [In reply to] Can't Post

i going to guess that the flashback in DOS will involve the necromancer/mirkwood/dol guldor/gandalf in some way, i think weve had the dwarven setup flashback, we need a 'current' flashback like in TTT then in taba we will probably get a bardy/laketown thang!

thats my guess

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


Shagrat
Gondor

Jan 21 2013, 10:53am

Post #8 of 16 (318 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

Would have loved to have seen something involving Fornost, then perhaps followed by the made-up entombing thing.


Lightice
Lorien

Jan 21 2013, 10:55am

Post #9 of 16 (315 views)
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He was probably still already a wraith. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Was the Witch King not a wraith yet in the movie's universe when Angmar fell? Is it implying that the the wraithing process of his ring of power didn't play into it at all, and it was just Sauron raising him from the dead/summoning his spirit out of the tomb?



The way I'm interpreting this is that in PJ's version of Middle-Earth the Witch-King did not get away when Angmar fell, but the remaining Dúnedain realised that they didn't have the means to kill him due to the prophecy (alas, they didn't have the imagination to ask a woman to stab him), so they sealed him up, instead. Since powerful spells were required to keep him down, it's to be expected that he was already a wraith at this point, and would have simply walked out if it wasn't for them.


bborchar
Rohan

Jan 21 2013, 3:46pm

Post #10 of 16 (244 views)
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I'm wondering... [In reply to] Can't Post

if they'll start off DOS with Thrain's backstory...they left it out of AUJ because PJ didn't think it fit right, but he said it would be in the next one. I think it would be a good start, but we'll see :)


(This post was edited by bborchar on Jan 21 2013, 3:46pm)


sevilodorf
Gondor


Jan 21 2013, 4:40pm

Post #11 of 16 (231 views)
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Thrain's story [In reply to] Can't Post

Obviously Jackson is messing with Tolkien's timeline as per Tolkien Gandalf finds Thrain in Dol Guldur eighty years before the Quest of Erebor.... but didn't he also drop hints that Thrain was taken prisoner in Moria by Azog.... is Jackson going to have Gandalf enter Moria to find it and thus close the loop to Gandalf's past with Moria that way?

Fourth Age Adventures at the Inn of the Burping Troll http://burpingtroll.com





bborchar
Rohan

Jan 21 2013, 4:52pm

Post #12 of 16 (255 views)
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Azog does say... [In reply to] Can't Post

...that Thorin reeked of fear, just like his father. So I think it's pretty likely that Thrain will have been captured at (or not long after) Moria. Especially since Balin mentions that he disappeared immediately afterwards. I think this would tie things up pretty neatly; of course, there's plenty of room for surprises.


LordMaximus
Rivendell


Jan 21 2013, 8:06pm

Post #13 of 16 (182 views)
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Good observation! [In reply to] Can't Post

That makes a lot more sense now you mention it!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 23 2013, 11:01pm

Post #14 of 16 (79 views)
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If they aren't going to give Glorfindel his due credit, and Lindon, Rivendell and even the aid from Gondor theirs, then no [In reply to] Can't Post

I would rather they did not. I would rather have a vague canvas than a false narrative.

In Reply To
I know it's already more than a stretch that PJ will include such sequence but i would have liked to see a flashback shown on how the witch-king was entombed, interlaced while Galadriel was narrating his history. But then again that will stray TH too far. PJ did a good job portraying him in Rotk, his coronation while Gandalf was telling his story to Pippin gave me chills. Oh well, enough of this make believing. :-)


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 24 2013, 12:04am

Post #15 of 16 (85 views)
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Po Glorifindel [In reply to] Can't Post

Kant get no r--e-s-p-e-c-t!

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 24 2013, 5:13am

Post #16 of 16 (104 views)
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Amen. [In reply to] Can't Post

Frown Lawd have mercy, Amen!

In Reply To
Kant get no r--e-s-p-e-c-t!


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

 
 

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