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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Pale Warg. . . a nod to Draugluin???

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 19 2013, 9:28pm

Post #1 of 8 (603 views)
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The Pale Warg. . . a nod to Draugluin??? Can't Post

That old wicked Maiar in Wolf/Warg form, that father of werewolves. I hadn't thought to connect the two (different genders among other things), but in perusing The Lay of Luthien, I saw again lines concerning Draugluin, the Pale Father of Werewolves. The pale aspect stood out as it hadn't before. Pale grey, perhaps, but gray only gets so pale before becoming a dingy white. It may be that no such thought went into this warg alpha female. Perhaps just a white warg for a big, white orc. Yet, it maybe that the film team thought to make a clever tip of the hat to that old horror, most dreadful of the werewolves and wargs to issue from Angband's gates ere the weaning of Carcaroth. Perhaps she meant to be a distant daughter of the line of The Father of Werewolves, in much the the spiders are spawn of Ungoliante. They don't have the rights to use Dragluin's name perhaps. . . but the pale fur and glowing eyes may be a hint at his likeness.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 19 2013, 9:40pm

Post #2 of 8 (314 views)
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Azog's Warg... [In reply to] Can't Post

Is a female? I'm afraid I never looked closely enough (ahem). I guess I assumed all the Wargs were male.

There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 19 2013, 9:47pm

Post #3 of 8 (266 views)
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Well then how would they make Warg cubs??? lol [In reply to] Can't Post

Yet, I did not actually take a glance between her hind legs either, Argalen. The Visual companion and some of the other tie in books refference a "huge, white, female warg/ warg matriarch" as being the dominant warg of the film. And since I only saw one who fit the white alpha role, I figured it must be the same mean gal. lol

In Reply To
Is a female? I'm afraid I never looked closely enough (ahem). I guess I assumed all the Wargs were male.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 19 2013, 9:53pm

Post #4 of 8 (244 views)
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Well I figured that :P [In reply to] Can't Post

but not that the females would be used for tracking and hunting by the Orcs. I assumed that the females would be back at their dens, baking bread and raising cubs.

That is an interesting observation, with the references you found; and if a female, then definitely an Alpha female.

There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much.


(This post was edited by Aragalen the Green on Jan 19 2013, 9:58pm)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 19 2013, 10:16pm

Post #5 of 8 (226 views)
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Lol. These are Wargs not wives of Windsor. lol [In reply to] Can't Post

They don't bake, they only bite. lol

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 20 2013, 12:26am

Post #6 of 8 (194 views)
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That may be... [In reply to] Can't Post

They drew some inspiration from other sources, they just can't tie it directly.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 20 2013, 5:05am

Post #7 of 8 (144 views)
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Yeah, I was thinking along [In reply to] Can't Post

those lines.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Retro315
Rivendell

Jan 20 2013, 10:51pm

Post #8 of 8 (96 views)
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Re [In reply to] Can't Post

It's natural to jump around and consider nods to Draugluin, or even Grond and Carcaroth. Wargs are certainly "of that nature", linked in heritage back to those original horror-wolves. And that links the Warg-Riders of Gundabad to Sauron, since he was a master of werewolves.

But I think it's far more specifically meant to evoke the White Wolves that invaded The Shire from Angmar during the Long Winter. The Warg Chief is a last vestige of that terrible breed, and it links Azog's Gundabad and Warg-Riders intrinsically to the Witch-king of Angmar (which is still a proxy for Sauron).

 
 

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