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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Significance of The Black Speech coming from Azog and his co-horts.

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 19 2013, 6:46am

Post #1 of 8 (726 views)
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The Significance of The Black Speech coming from Azog and his co-horts. Can't Post

It ties him to Sauron's dominion in a way nor orcs have been in the films thus far. The origins of the speech are debatable. If Sauron invented it, it ties them entirely to him. If, as other accounts suggest, Melkor The Morgoth invented it and Sauron merely tried to expand and re-implement, then it may have been re-inforced in the Moria orcs by the presence and dominion of The Balrog. In either event, it still ties them heavily to Sauron, and is likely not coincedental. No other orcs in the Rings movies ever spoke in it, to my recollection. Sauron and The Nazgul did, but Not Lurtz, not Ugluk, not the Potato headed orc whom I refuse to call by the same name as the foremost of The Balrogs Tongue. And the Goblins do not speak it here. Only Azog and his henchman. The suggestion of a tie to Sauron is almost absolute, and I do not doubt we will see it further explored later.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jan 19 2013, 8:20pm

Post #2 of 8 (240 views)
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We do hear the Orcs using the Black Speech in RotK [In reply to] Can't Post

There a few moments in the film where they chant the Black Speech en masse; specially "kat mu dah", which apparently translates as "Death to Men". We also hear orders being issued in Orcish/Black Speech in a couple scenes as well, most notably during the Siege of Minas Tirith. However, they seem to be more ceremonial shows of strength and obviously, otherwise when speaking they simply use Westron.

I wonder how much the fact that the Azog/Necromancer story seemed to be in flux during production effected the decision to use another language for the Orcs, if if did at all? The Orcish spoken in the film matches the subtitles according to those who speak the language (?!) so it's not really a matter of "let's have the Orcs say whatever then change the subtitles as the story alterations demand".

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 19 2013, 9:45pm

Post #3 of 8 (181 views)
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Duly noted, though [In reply to] Can't Post

as you say, those were ceremonial chants and battle cries. Here, it is the primary form of communication.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 20 2013, 12:08am

Post #4 of 8 (155 views)
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Yeah we posted about this... [In reply to] Can't Post

The use of the language did make them seem more menacing than the Misty Mountain Irregulars.


Lio
Lorien


Jan 20 2013, 12:09am

Post #5 of 8 (161 views)
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I do believe the Orkish in the movie is different from Black Speech (though they could still be related) [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't have the link handy, but I recall reading somewhere that the language used by Azog and his hunters was invented for the movie and it's a distinct language from Black Speech. Although, it would still have influences from other Middle-earth languages, Black Speech included.

Now that I think about it, would the Necromancer want to be openly using Black Speech? I believe he was still trying to conceal his identity as Sauron at this point in the story. So wouldn't he risk giving himself away by having his minions use the Black Speech? Tongue

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Loresilme
Valinor


Jan 20 2013, 12:38pm

Post #6 of 8 (129 views)
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Well if it was a form of Black Speech, it would also tie-in to [In reply to] Can't Post

the use of the Ringwraith theme used when Thorin went to battle him at the end.

I'm not sure yet how it all fits in, but I don't think it's coincidental either. None of the decisions about what to use in the film, such as the language or the music, were made lightly. They mean something and we'll just have to keep puzzling it out until we find out :-)!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 20 2013, 5:55pm

Post #7 of 8 (105 views)
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That sounds about right. [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

In Reply To
the use of the Ringwraith theme used when Thorin went to battle him at the end.

I'm not sure yet how it all fits in, but I don't think it's coincidental either. None of the decisions about what to use in the film, such as the language or the music, were made lightly. They mean something and we'll just have to keep puzzling it out until we find out :-)!


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


YaznegSouth40
Rivendell

Jan 22 2013, 9:32pm

Post #8 of 8 (115 views)
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Yes the use of the Ringwraith's theme.. [In reply to] Can't Post

suggest that Azog and his orcs or at least Azog is a creation of Sauron and was one of those sent to rule the northern orcs and begin the early plannings of his return to power!

 
 

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