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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Whereabouts of Thráin (possible spoilers?)


Jan 19 2013, 1:34am

Post #1 of 4 (688 views)
The Whereabouts of Thráin (possible spoilers?) Can't Post

Hi everyone, I've been a longtime fan but this is my first time posting here! I'm really looking forward to how the story of The Hobbit movies unfolds over the next year and a half (even if some of the changes from the book are a bit... hmm Crazy).

Anyway, sorry if this has been discussed before but I've been lurking here for about two months now and I don't remember seeing it brought up. Basically I was reading through the Visual Companion for the first movie and a few lines concerning Thráin caught my eye:

  • On page 20: "Thorin is the son of Thráin, and for long years since his father vanished in the dark halls of Khazad-dûm he has borne the heavy burden of the hopes of his people . . . "

The seems to suggest that Thráin was captured in Moria (probably after the battle there, where he is said to have disappeared during Balin's flashback), rather than in Mirkwood as in the book. Then there's this:

  • On page 32: "Balin was there at the Front Gate of the Lonely Mountain with King Thráin and the young prince Thorin when Smaug descended in flame and fire, and he saw the town of Dale destroyed. He also accompanied Thráin on the doomed expedition to regain the kingdom of Khazad-dûm, when his king was captured by Goblins and lost to his people."

This could possibly be a mistake since Thráin was not the King, Thrór was. The second sentence could still be correct with respect to Thráin's capture though.

So, putting it all together, it seems that Thráin is originally captured in Moria and taken to Dol Guldur at a later time. This has some implications for the movie story:

  • When exactly did Gandalf obtain Thráin's map and key? It seems from the movie that he has not been to Dol Guldur, since Radagast had to warn him about the evil there. But in one of the trailers, I think, Gandalf is shown fighting Thráin in Dol Guldur, so maybe that encounter has yet to happen? Could Gandalf have obtained the map and key from Thráin before his capture?
  • Connection between Bolg, Azog, and Dol Guldur. Bolg was at the battle outside Moria during the flashback, but it's been stated somewhere (his action figure description, I think?) that he's the torturer at Dol Guldur. So possibly he could have brought Thráin there after his capture. Bolg could have also gotten the information regarding the map and key from Thráin (who, if the above speculation is correct, had already given them to Gandalf). Hence, Azog and his hunters knowing about the quest. This would also tie in with Azog's lines about Thráin's fear to Thorin near the end of the movie.

Thanks to anyone reading this far. That was rambling, I know! Crazy

But what does everyone think? Laugh

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Jan 19 2013, 3:04am

Post #2 of 4 (387 views)
Peter Jackson... [In reply to] Can't Post

...mentioned that this would be addressed in the next movie, because it didn't fit into the first one.

Hamfast of Gamwich

Jan 19 2013, 9:40am

Post #3 of 4 (306 views)
Bolg [In reply to] Can't Post

It's gotta be related to Bolg. He'll take Thrain back to Dol Guldur I imagine.

They shot scenes of Gandalf going to Dol Guldur prior to the events of the unexpected party and they were supposed to be included in a flashback in AUJ but were cut out. He did mention some knowledge of Dol Guldur in AUJ which suggested he'd been but not recently, but did say that it was deserted which is at odds with him seeing Thrain there.


Jan 19 2013, 12:24pm

Post #4 of 4 (309 views)
There are a lot of theories running around the forum [In reply to] Can't Post

My personal favorite is that of Thrain actually leaving the battle and going to Dol Guldur himself, compelled by his madness and the ring.


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