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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Jan 18 2013, 6:20pm
Post #26 of 39
(305 views)
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Or, the point is that life isn't fair. :-( //
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glor
Rohan
Jan 18 2013, 7:13pm
Post #27 of 39
(299 views)
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It's an hereditary monarchy, nothing to do with fairness
(This post was edited by glor on Jan 18 2013, 7:17pm)
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Jan 18 2013, 7:28pm
Post #28 of 39
(302 views)
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Thanks for some interesting insights! And for the real ages of some actors (I was running on a memory equivalent to Bifur's probable one).
I just got the WETA book (Hobbit Chronicles) on the deigns for the films. You can see the journey from the first designs to the finishes (of course, this is just a good sampling of the gazillion bits of art done).
One thing noticeable in the first few pages of Dwarf design is an illustration of the Company... where they all pretty much look like stout bearded guys, impossible to tell apart quickly or from a distance. They talk about design decisions and how they got to the iconic images we now have in the films.
Really helps you appreciate the journey of the designers and actors!
Go outside and play...
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Gelir
Bree
Jan 18 2013, 9:13pm
Post #29 of 39
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Re: alternate endings-spoiler alert
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Ok, well keep in mind, I think I was about 9 or 10 when I first read the book. :)
My first ending wasn't very creative - they simply all lived. There was a line in the book that I really liked - "Thorin wielded his axe with mighty strokes, and nothing seemed to harm him." And so it continued to happen that way, and he killed a lot of goblins and wargs, and everyone lived. :)
Then I realized I had to address what came after that part - the sheer number of goblins was so great and Thorin’s company was forced into a circle (a "great ring") with enemies on every side. So, just when it looked as though Thorin was about to be speared, eagles came down, swept some of the goblins away, and grabbed Thorin and Fili and Kili (and other dwarves too) and carried them to safety. In some versions of that, they were safe up on the mountain looking down, and in other versions, they were dropped in a better location, and took up the fight again. (And of course they killed a lot of goblins).
In one version, Gandalf produces a blast of magic that saves Thorin, Fili, and Kili in the nick of time.
In another, Bilbo uses his ring and is killing goblins before they even know what hit them. He saves the dwarves just in time and the goblins are in such a state of confusion that the dwarves are able to get out of the circle and find themselves a better fighting position.
After I read Lord of the Rings, I had an ending where Thorin, Fili, and Kili all got injured, and an eagle came and carried them away. Afterwards, the Elvenking, who I decided had healing powers like Elrond, visits their bedsides and heals all three of them. He admits he was wrong for imprisoning the dwarves and for what happened before the battle (because I always thought Thorin got a bad deal, even though I agreed he should have parted with some gold and was unreasonable himself).
I think there were more versions too, but I don’t remember them all.
This one was my favorite: At one point, Fili and Kili swept down on ropes and saved Thorin from being killed at the last minute. I’m not sure how they would have done this, since I did know that they were not fighting in the forest and didn't have trees to tie the ropes to, but I did like that one. :)
That version then started to become more elaborate. Fili and Kili sweep in (or sometimes they just jumped in) and save Thorin, but then they are right in the middle of the fray too. Thorin is on his feet fighting more goblins and hears Kili cry for help. Thorin is surrounded by goblins, and is surprisingly farther away from Fili and Kili than it would seem - maybe they got pushed apart in the course of battle. He sees that Fili and Kili are in a bad spot and Kili has lost his weapon. He shouts out for them and whilst fighting off goblins with his axe in his right hand, he draws a sword with his left (I’m left handed, so Thorin was too. :)) He begins fighting with such determination and great feats that if it was on the screen, it would probably put even some of Legolas’ moves to shame. :) He jumps over them, slides under them, rides a warg for a little bit, jumps off, lands on his feet just in time to kill more goblins, etc. Balin and Dwalin are nearby fighting very bravely too while all of this is going on, and also help clear a path for Thorin as he tries to reach Fili and Kili. Just when it appears that Kili is going to get his head cut off and Fili is trying desperately to get away from some goblins and reach him, Thorin arrives. He kills the goblin with his sword while at the same time throwing his axe to Kili. Kili gets up swinging, and the two of them rush over to Fili to give him a hand.
I liked that version a lot and wrote it into a little story, but I believe I lost it. I used elements from my other versions too. The sword that Thorin draws becomes Orcrist. Bilbo got it back from the Elvenking when he stole the Arkenstone, and in the battle he wears his ring, sneaks past the goblins, and puts it in Thorin’s sheath. Gandalf does use a magic blast, but I didn't want to use that to save Thorin, Fili, or Kili anymore. I wanted the dwarves to save each other. So I had him using magic to help elves or men.
So there you have it. Thorin remains king and all 3 of them live long happy lives in all of my versions. I never had anything against Dain, but just didn't like that Thorin was dead and didn't get to be king.
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Macfeast
Rohan
Jan 19 2013, 12:23am
Post #30 of 39
(277 views)
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Oh, how I hope something along those lines happens. //
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Kirly
Lorien
Jan 19 2013, 12:30am
Post #31 of 39
(272 views)
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Gelir - impressive imagination AND memory!! //
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Kirly
Lorien
Jan 19 2013, 12:34am
Post #32 of 39
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most excellent indeed!
regarding Fili and Kili and their youth... I always thought of them in the same way - that they were just barely of age in the books and so having short beards in the movie makes sense to me. in fact, after i read that article about the royal three (the one translated from German), i thought about it more and belief that they are the Dwarven equivalent of very young men such as humans would be at about 17 or so for Kili and early 20s for Fili.
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malla
Bree
Jan 21 2013, 3:04am
Post #34 of 39
(240 views)
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Did the filmmakers make Ori the youngest on purpose or was the Great Goblin just ignorant?
According to one of those official books that has been quoted(I need to buy some of these so I can just give page numbers etc:)), Ori is in fact supposed to be the youngest of the company.
Not sure what book you read.....
......but I'll take what appears in the Hobbit Chronicles by Weta. Here's a quote from Peter King, Make-up and Hair Designer:
"Kili and Fili, being the youngest and handsomest, were our sexy Dwarves, but it was a challenge to keep them that way while still trying to transform them into what people expect a Dwarf to look like."
Tenna' ento lye omenta,
Malla
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Gelir
Bree
Jan 21 2013, 3:11am
Post #35 of 39
(229 views)
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I did at least have fun coming up with them. :)
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marillaraina
Rohan
Jan 21 2013, 3:15am
Post #36 of 39
(233 views)
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I don't know it might have been that other Hobbit book, the visual companion? And the actor himself has mentioned it I believe.
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Cirashala
Valinor
Jan 21 2013, 7:05am
Post #37 of 39
(242 views)
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This was my first post, and I can't believe all the well done and great post comments! 
Thanks so much!
I just started TORn maybe a week or two ago, and finally stopped lurking the day I did this post, and I must say, I have been on various forums before, and there is often a lot of nitpicking, or trolling, in many of them, and out and out rudeness in others, but TORn has definitely made me feel more welcome and unafraid to voice opinions in a friendly debate, where we can agree or disagree on something without having much in the way of personal attacks and such. I absolutely enjoy good, intellectually stimulating conversation about my favorite topic-Middle Earth (and presently, the hobbit) and love debates as well, so I feel that my decision to join TORn was a good one 
Thank you all for me being able to FINALLY find a forum that I can barely put down lol!
(I think my husband is starting to comment that I don't share the laptop as well as I used to  )
Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm
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Cillendor
Lorien
Dec 21 2013, 8:57pm
Post #38 of 39
(192 views)
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actually makes quite a bit of sense, considering in the prologue of AUJ you can see him with the start of a full beard. It's hard to see because of the dim lighting, but he definitely has one. It appears that as they get older, the line of kings in his family add length and beads to their beards as a sign of status. Had he become king like his grandfather, he'd surely have a full beard.
http://media.tumblr.com/...g104yazrz1rc17u5.jpg
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Cirashala
Valinor
Dec 21 2013, 9:01pm
Post #39 of 39
(184 views)
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I had noticed that too, and it gave more credibility to my theory (Plus RA mentioning that Thorin had done that).
Gaubdûkhimâ gagin yâkùlib Mahal
May we meet again with the grace of Mahal
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