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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Plot Hole : How Azog crossed the Misty Mountains
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SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 14 2013, 9:41am

Post #26 of 45 (197 views)
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Wolf-type creatures like to chase rabbit-type creatures [In reply to] Can't Post

squirrels preferably. Wink


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Jan 14 2013, 9:41am)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 14 2013, 9:48am

Post #27 of 45 (207 views)
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Sorry to be terse twice [In reply to] Can't Post

(I was stirred by a bad dream and am just letting it clear before returning to bed... not fully awake.)

There's the idea of speaking evil into existence. It appears in FOTR i think, and perhaps ROTK... it's where the phrase "speak of the devil" comes from... the idea that if you mention evil, evil shows up.

That, or the warg in the trees was added as an afterthought (CGI is handy in such instances) after striking on the Azog plot late into filming.

I like the first explanation better. Wink


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Jan 14 2013, 9:50am)


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Jan 14 2013, 10:09am

Post #28 of 45 (195 views)
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It is a storytelling device... [In reply to] Can't Post

Nothing more...

Vocalist in the semi-progressive metal band Arctic Eclipse


stoutfiles
Rohan


Jan 14 2013, 2:03pm

Post #29 of 45 (216 views)
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Radagast plot hole explained [In reply to] Can't Post

His rabbits can also fly, like reindeer.


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Jan 14 2013, 2:50pm

Post #30 of 45 (150 views)
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Yes, but in good films [In reply to] Can't Post

storytelling devices are explained or justified. Plot holes are considered faults. People notice them and get drawn out of the story. LOTR has some, though I don't think they're quite this noticeable (e.g., how in the world does Gandalf know that Gollum was tortured in Mordor and specifically that he gave up the names Baggins and Shire?).


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 14 2013, 2:57pm

Post #31 of 45 (141 views)
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Ho ho ho! I mean, ha ha ha! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"


dave_lf
Gondor

Jan 14 2013, 3:04pm

Post #32 of 45 (142 views)
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How is this a plot hole? [In reply to] Can't Post

There are plot holes in these stories to be sure, but this isn't one of them:
-The main obstacle to crossing the Misty Mountains is the orcs. Azog is an orc. No problem.
-The Great Goblin mentions the price Azog set on Throin's head in the earlier scene and tells his minion to contact Azog to claim it. Therefore, Azog was already near enough to send and receive messages.


Ruxendil_Thoorg
Grey Havens


Jan 14 2013, 3:14pm

Post #33 of 45 (139 views)
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Now Hazel! now Fiver! now Bigwig, and Blackberry! .... [In reply to] Can't Post

...On Buckthorn! on Silver! on Pipkin! and Strawberry! WinkLaugh

I've only seen AUJ twice and it's been several weeks since the last I viewed it. Could someone tell me how many rabbits were pulling the sleigh? (were there 8? or 9, featuring Jessica the Red-Dressed... nevermind)

I wonder what their names are, or if they haven't been given names, what their names ought to be, just for fun.

A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

http://newboards.theonering.net/...forum_view_expanded;


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Jan 14 2013, 3:31pm

Post #34 of 45 (120 views)
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Will the Necromancer have a giant rabbit named Woundwort? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Jan 14 2013, 3:32pm

Post #35 of 45 (131 views)
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Don't forget Peter! [In reply to] Can't Post

 Rabbit, that is; not Jackson Crazy

" Well well!", said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
"Most astonishing wonderful!"

(This post was edited by Aragalen the Green on Jan 14 2013, 3:33pm)


Ruxendil_Thoorg
Grey Havens


Jan 14 2013, 3:44pm

Post #36 of 45 (107 views)
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Yes! And one of the Eagles will be named ... [In reply to] Can't Post

.... Kehaar! (he might not look quite like the other Eagles though Wink)

He'll be the only one who talks, but it will be in an accent (what kind of accent was it supposed to be anyway? German? not sure)

A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

http://newboards.theonering.net/...forum_view_expanded;


Ruxendil_Thoorg
Grey Havens


Jan 14 2013, 3:46pm

Post #37 of 45 (99 views)
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That's right! also: "On Flopsy!...on Mopsy!.... on Cottontail!... and ..... " etc. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

A bag is like a hole that you can carry with you.

http://newboards.theonering.net/...forum_view_expanded;


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jan 14 2013, 4:01pm

Post #38 of 45 (99 views)
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This is what i like to do to explain certain things. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
As for Radagast... Isengard. The events seems simultaneous, but they are not.


Good point. If events aren't explicitly stated to be happening concurrently, i'm free to imagine them at any point in the overarching history.

My two least favorite things about AUJ are Azog and the Radagast/Mirkwood mystery. And both have to do with changing Tolkien's history. But at least with the Mirkwood stuff (or should i say Greenwood), we don't know *exactly* when Radagast first discovers the evil in Greenwood. So unless i'm missing something, it could have happened years before the events of the movie, giving Radagast all the time in the world to reach Gandalf and company. But this can account for a few years at most, and not the centuries Tolkien writes of.

Just some things i play out in my mind to make everything fit better, just like in LotR i imagine weeks or months passing when in the film it seems like days.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 14 2013, 4:56pm

Post #39 of 45 (96 views)
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They take the Underground, of course [In reply to] Can't Post

There must be a station that lets you off near the fir trees, just as the Elephant and Castle station lets you off in Ithilien.


xxxyyy
Rohan

Jan 14 2013, 5:16pm

Post #40 of 45 (84 views)
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Yeah... you know what I will do? [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the most important "missing time" is, in FOTR, when Gandalf leaves Frodo to gather informations about the Ring and hunt for Gollum.
I think I'll add to my copy of FOTR a nice subtitle when Frodo and company are at the Green Dragon... something like "2 (or 3) years later"... 3 seems nice.
Then I have all the time I want to add in the hunt for Gollum, hinted by Gandalf himself to Frodo.

http://energyfromthorium.com/


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Jan 14 2013, 7:12pm

Post #41 of 45 (73 views)
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LOL... [In reply to] Can't Post

So Embankment is the stop you need for Helm's Deep and all passengers for Amon Sul alight at Tower Hill?


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort






Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 14 2013, 7:22pm

Post #42 of 45 (73 views)
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Yes, exactly. :) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey it's not so silly. Tolkien said there were some areas of Europe that corresponded to areas of Middle-earth, well, about five or six ages ago.

There are definitely stops that look a little like goblin town on the older lines.


(This post was edited by Rostron2 on Jan 14 2013, 7:23pm)


L. Ron Halfelven
Grey Havens


Jan 14 2013, 8:24pm

Post #43 of 45 (62 views)
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Or maybe "I Got You, Babe".// [In reply to] Can't Post

 



"123456!... password!... password1!... password2!... Gimli, do you know Durin's date of birth? Thanks. 140457!... mithril@!... mithril#!... maltbeer!... qwerty!... Legolas, do your elf eyes see any post-its lying around the base of the cliff?"


imin
Valinor


Jan 15 2013, 2:40am

Post #44 of 45 (32 views)
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Isn't this the part where there is a 17 year gap in the book? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Starling
Half-elven


Jan 15 2013, 6:30am

Post #45 of 45 (47 views)
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"There's a large dog loose in the wood." // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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