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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
question about the Moria flashback
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 13 2013, 12:47am

Post #26 of 28 (95 views)
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On this much, at least, I think you and I entirely agree [In reply to] Can't Post

Though we might perhaps say the most un-observant, rather than retarded Wink lol

In Reply To
Yes, we all are movie goers, but after that, we get our copy toand watch it 10 thousand times, so all these inconsistencies will eventually show up, even to the most retared ones.
And for Balin not being Balin... well... they should have changed Balin's name in TH with another name then, because everybody, after seeing TH and then seeing FOTR will make that connection.
.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 13 2013, 12:55am

Post #27 of 28 (72 views)
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I don't think we know how bound to a solid walking form Balrog's were. [In reply to] Can't Post

We know that they could move very fast, if they so chose. As fast as an exploding fire perhaps? They are said to have rushed to the aid of Melkor-Morgoth when he was assailed by Ungoliant at an alarming speed. In the movies, he is portrayed as essentially materializing out of the flames.

And no, I am pretty sure the Dwarves (save maybe the reincarnating Durin, who was slain and did not reincarnate again in The Third Age) did not have any real knowledge of what a Balrog was, and they would have been to proud to ask the Elves. Also, the tale was one of both shame and ineffable horror to them, so they did not often speak of it. All they knew is that something terrible and powerful slew Durin and then hunted down and slew Nain, and that their weapons were useless against it. They had enough of a running description that the general image haunted their nightmares and legends, and for Dain and Gimli to be able to recognize it immediately as Durin's Bane, but of its past, its relationship to Thangorodrim, Angband, Melkor et al. . . lore for The Wise.

In Reply To
We're going to see more of Balin and Co heading off to Moria after Bilbo says goodbye and goes home to his auction? I rather doubt it.

As for the lack of knowledge about the Balrog, I guess we can surmise that they really didn't know what it was that dwelt in the deep places under Moria. No doubt they had some theories that it might be some creature of Sauron's, but not exactly what type. Since this was one of the Balrog's that fled after Morgoth's downfall, it was a long way from where that all occurred.

(Begs another question, forgive me but, if the balrog didn't have wings, how long would it take for him to walk from the now sunken area where Angband was to get to Moria???)


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 13 2013, 1:08am

Post #28 of 28 (141 views)
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Because Moria has been brought into the films. At least, that is my rationale for [In reply to] Can't Post

giving some commentary on The Balrog, though Balin is also a reason. Balin is mentioned by name, repeatedly in Fellowship. Now, on its own, yes, his fate could just remain a mystery and then, oh dear, things went badly and now he is dead (much sadder now, as I really love the Balin of this movie).

But The Balrog poses a bigger problem. He is not only encountered in Moria in one of the most iconic scenes in the movies, he is also explicitly mentioned by Saruman and clearly known to Gandalf. . ."Moria. You fear to go into those mines. . . . You know what awoke in The Darkness of Khazad-Dum. . ." Now if Moria was entirely unmentioned in The Hobbit films, well okay. But now they HAVE mentioned it, and very clearly shown it. The East Gate is very distinctive, and we see Azog being carried in with a great orange fireglow behind him.

So now, for audiences viewing from back to front, the known quantity of The Balrog immediately comes to mind. And for audiences viewing it in proper order, if no further commentary or explanation is given, then when Saruman starts talking about this Demon who has long dwelled in Moria, the viewers are inclined to ask "what the hell is talking about? Where the hell did that villain come from? I never heard of him before in connection to Moria, and they featured Moria for five whole damned minutes in the first Hobbit movie (and it may get more featuring yet, if Azog is further explained etc.). In that light, it becomes a continuity problem. Mentioning Moria in these films with no implication of The Balrog, and then having him feature as the dominant Baddie of Moria in the "subsequent" films AND portrayed, not as some menace who just moved in (which would be HORRIBLE revisionism anyway, and would entirely leave aside the epic horror tale of how Khazad-Dum ended up abandoned by Durin's people in the first place) but as part of the ancient legend and horror of the place, looks sloppy, as though he were sandwhiched in at the last minute just to provide a Baddie Boss level challenge for Gandalf.

By at least clearly alluding to him they give greater depth and authenticity to the larger tale of this series of movies.

In Reply To
The movie isn't about Balin's journey to the mountain and back again. It's also not cinematic to end the film that way, unless your idea of linking the films together is to do a cliffhanger that doesn't get explained until 2/3's of the way through FOTR?

The timeline is always vague in these movies, but even so, (book) Balin doesn't go back to Moria for some years. He's got to rebuild the dwarf kingdom in Erebor first and help Dain.

I understand you're interested in Balin and his fate, but I don't see this happening.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

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