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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
What will be the fifth army at BO5A?


Jan 5 2013, 11:48pm

Post #1 of 19 (850 views)
What will be the fifth army at BO5A? Can't Post

As far as I remember the 5 armies as descrIbed in the book are Elves, Men, Dwarves, Goblins and wild wolves. I would be surprised if PJ used the wolves as a separate 'army'....do you think this means we might have PJ's differentiated goblins and Orcs (Bolg and co) as separate forces?


Jan 5 2013, 11:55pm

Post #2 of 19 (472 views)
I don't think they need to make a fuss about which army is which, and who is included and which [In reply to] Can't Post

As long as there are 5 armies marching on the mountain (Elves, Men, Dwarves, Orcs and Wargs), then it doesn't matter. There's also bats, Beorn, Bilbo, Gandalf so on ....

There's no need to make a fuss about the distinction between wargs and wolves, and goblins and orcs.


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Jan 5 2013, 11:57pm)


Jan 6 2013, 12:27am

Post #3 of 19 (433 views)
Not expecting an announcer to introduce the combatants... [In reply to] Can't Post

Really, I was just wondering if the goblins from the misty mountains would march on Erebor as a separate force? ....they weren't depicted as being particularly adept warriors and I can't really envisage them as an 'army'.

I guess that we might just have the eagles as the late arriving army number 5. I would be perfectly happy with that accounting.

The Mitch King

Jan 6 2013, 12:28am

Post #4 of 19 (409 views)
It doesn't matter really [In reply to] Can't Post

They aren't going to give the battle a label in the movie probably. The common movie folk will just see it as a very large battle of good versus evil. Most people won't hold an expectation that there is a specific number of armies or care who makes up said armies. So since its not a big deal PJ won't have to differentiate at all in the movie. It will be a big mess of orcs, goblins, wargs, etc.


Jan 6 2013, 1:36am

Post #5 of 19 (384 views)
I don't think there's any need to change it [In reply to] Can't Post

The Goblins and Orcs can be counted as one Army. It gets too confusing otherwise. To this day I get confused with what the difference is. Crazy


Jan 6 2013, 1:45am

Post #6 of 19 (364 views)
Me, too [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To
The Goblins and Orcs can be counted as one Army. It gets too confusing otherwise. To this day I get confused with what the difference is. Crazy

When I get asked, I mumble a lot and then yell "Hey! Look at that!" I am sure that someone here (hint) will give us the genus, etc., which I will write on index cards and carry with me at all times.

Fredeghar Wayfarer

Jan 6 2013, 2:28am

Post #7 of 19 (360 views)
Orcs and goblins [In reply to] Can't Post

In Tolkien's stories, they're different names for the same thing. In the movies, goblins are the smaller breeds of orcs. Makes sense since "goblin" was mostly used in The Hobbit for the creatures of the Misty Mountains, who didn't seem quite as monstrous as the orcs of LOTR.

Tol Eressea

Jan 6 2013, 3:04am

Post #8 of 19 (346 views)
I expect they'd "officially" decide, but not make a big deal out of it [In reply to] Can't Post

The Two Towers had a number in the title of the movie, yet to this day I can never remember which two they decided to go with for the movies. Unless, of course, I happen to be holding the dvd case. They made their official decision, but didn't emphasize it in the storytelling. I expect something similar for the Bo5A.

That being said, I expect the fourth and fifth armies to either be goblins/wargs and eagles or goblins and wargs, though more likely the former. (Eagles look so nice on dvd covers Tongue )

..The land of long-forgotten name:
......no man may ever anchor near;
..No steering star his hope may aim,
......for nether Night its marches drear,
..And waters wide no sail may tame,
......with shores encircled dark and sheer.

..O! Haven where my heart would be!
......the waves beat upon thy bar
..For ever echo endlessly,
......when longing leads thy thought afar


Jan 6 2013, 3:04am

Post #9 of 19 (341 views)
Morcs [In reply to] Can't Post


The Shire

Jan 6 2013, 8:11am

Post #10 of 19 (274 views)
In the context of the film it doesn't matter [In reply to] Can't Post

in the context of merchandising and advertising however it probably will


Jan 6 2013, 11:25am

Post #11 of 19 (251 views)
Eagles vs bats will be likely shown [In reply to] Can't Post

He does love them eagles scenes.

It ought to be an air battle within the bigger battle, like when the eagles swooped in and mauled the Nazgul in ROTK. But probably more detailed and longer.


Jan 6 2013, 4:13pm

Post #12 of 19 (200 views)
The bats chasing Radagast at Dol Guldur were fairly small, [In reply to] Can't Post

but I suppose they could swarm the Eagles and make a nuisance of themselves.


Jan 6 2013, 4:27pm

Post #13 of 19 (197 views)
This will be the case [In reply to] Can't Post

It ought to be an air battle within the bigger battle, like when the eagles swooped in and mauled the Nazgul in ROTK. But probably more detailed and longer.

From an interview with Armitage:

Richard Armitage had this to say about the battle sequence. "It's been put aside until next year, thankfully," he joked. "It's this big thing looming over us. I'm predicting about ten weeks for the shoot because it's an extensive battle and each character is going to have their 'hero' moment on the battlefield. It's a manic fight in the air - the eagles are fighting bats - and on the ground, and I can't wait to see what Pete does with that." That's right, the battle will see men, elves, dwarves, orcs and eagles all facing off for the future of Middle-Earth! It falls to second unit director Andy Serkis to handle the action, but he isn't letting the pressure get to him. "It's going to be intense beyond belief. It's going to be extraordinary - that's all I can say."



Jan 6 2013, 5:25pm

Post #14 of 19 (195 views)
Please, no Eagles at the BO5A, not again... [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope we don't see them... it would be too similar to the end of ROTK.
Let alone people will say again why the eagles didn't help the company to get there if they are willing to put in danger their lives in a battle.
A big bloody battle, yes... a fast and simple trip no? Come on, they can even see the lonley mountains at the end of AUJ...
In LOTR there's an easy explanation (almost)... but here... why the heck they they left them on that little island in the middle of the Anduin?
A chance for PJ to fix both the Hobbit and LOTR. Let's all pray he doesn't fail, or we'll all be doomed.



Jan 6 2013, 5:28pm

Post #15 of 19 (206 views)
The eagles will be at the battle, as in the book. See my earlier post [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think it raises any issues. The eagles won't and don't help. They just aid. Simple. Wink


Jan 6 2013, 11:42pm

Post #16 of 19 (166 views)
That's unfortunate. I hope they fix the ULTIMATE issue with them, then. [In reply to] Can't Post

"Why not ride an eagle to (insert location here)" problem.
For the writers, if they wanted to add again the eagles at a battle, been very similar to ROTK, at least I could be relatively confident that they had spent more time thinking about not to make that scene look and FEEL the same... and that's a positive aspect.
Finger crossed.



Jan 7 2013, 3:48am

Post #17 of 19 (147 views)
I think you are right about that. [In reply to] Can't Post

 I have a friend who says trolls will be in the battle. But I doubt that. Maybe hobgoblins instead? But I think, other then a few exceptions, the brunt of the armies will be: elves, men, dwarves, orcs, and goblins.

''We are very dangerous over short distances''



Jan 7 2013, 6:20am

Post #18 of 19 (147 views)
We haven't had any spoilers regarding Trolls at the battle [In reply to] Can't Post

That I can remember anyway. I'd take that with a pinch of salt. Wink


Jan 7 2013, 5:11pm

Post #19 of 19 (132 views)
Beorn counts as an Army of One... [In reply to] Can't Post

Or, more likely, maybe the Eagles will be considered the fifth army?

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


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