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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I think the key to the map and key escaping Sauron's notice

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 5 2013, 12:46am


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I think the key to the map and key escaping Sauron's notice [In reply to] Can't Post

as a certain Wizard saw it, was that having gained back The Ring he sought, the dwarf was of no more interest to him. He knew what he was looking for, he retrieved it early, and what else mattered?! And that is not strange behaviour. It is common enough for people to stop searching, in general and at least for a while, if they find exactly what they are looking for. If the girl or guy of your dreams falls into your lap from The Heavens (or The Havens), other people might still catch your eye from time to time, but you almost certainly aren't going to be fishing at the bar, or events or searching through internet match maker sights any time soon.

Searching every crack and crevice, as yon Great Goblin would put it, is generally a sound method for turning up useful and valuable secret treasures (and it still boggles me that Frodo is found with his neat little trouser pants on in Return of The King. . . there are Elves who wouldn't curtail there search so politely, and certainly no orc would, nor can one imagine a goblin being concerned over the lad's decency and helping him dress anew after the search), but Sauron found EXACTLY what he wanted. No hidden pocket knife or fancy necklace or swallowed sapphire or ruby would have been of much concern to him once the mightiest of The Seven had been recovered. It is feasible that he would have left Thrain to die with little more than a second thought, save that the torment of being stripped of a Great Ring might be more harrowing than a sudden slaying.

Thank you and I agree with you on the Maia business ( I wish he hadn't been quite so embryonic in appearance lol). Though I am not sure both incidents will happen at the same time. I think Gandalf will have a near brush with either Sauron or whatever Nazgul are relevant (we saw their foremost figure in this movie), and I am hoping ( gaurdedly and without too much expectation) that we may get some recreation of the Amon Sul battle between Wizard and Wraiths that was left out of Fellowship ". . . they felt the coming of my anger, and they dared not face it whilst the Sun was in the Sky. . . but at night they closed round . . . and I was besieged. . . such Light and flame cannot have been seen on Weathertop since the war beacons of olde!" I can hope, but we shall see, but I don't know that it will be at the same time as his Bolg or Thrain encounter. I still think it possible, especially when they commented that they had tried to put the Thrain content at the beginning of this film, and also based on the seeming lack of Glamdring in that scene, that Gandalf finds Thrain in Dol Guldur, but no evidence of any greater evil than Orcs, but returns there upon Radagast's report.

In Reply To
Thank you for reminding us of your speculative views. We can talk in mid december as to whom was right!

Rereading my post I can see a flaw in Thrain benignly letting Gandalf having the key and map and then attempting to return to Erebor!.

One of the Tolkien plot holes is this notion this mad deranged prisoner was able to hide a map and a key but not a ring in all the years he was incarcerated. It might make sense at a heirarchy of spirit level but not in the physical world. Somehow the way Gandalf says in Bag End the key was given to him for safe keeping sounded straight forward and no further explanation was required. Did he really just forget to tell Thorin that he had met his father in the most distressing of states to save his feelings?

If Chris Lee's rehearsal lines about the Dwarf rings survive into the 2nd meeting of the council then I am guessing that it is a responce to Gandalf returning from Dol Gulder to report on what he found mad Thrain dispossessed by Sauron and tortured by Bolg.

I know you are very strong on supporting and reminding us, quite correctly in my view, of Tolkiens sense of the heirarchy of spirits. Bolg is of course no match for Gandalf but an embryonic black Maia is. On his visit to DG he will deal with Thrain/Bolg and the revelation of the Necromencer and will barely escape.

Incidentally whilst Gandalf was in my view misreported by PJ in the ROTK in his EE interactions with the WK, to portray him as doubting his ability with a kind of christ like humilty makes him in my view the greater wiser spirit. At the White Council when Galadriel echo their Many Partings telepathy there is Saruman holding forth as the avuncular elder statesmen full of pomp and all puffed up and two of the council are not listening. It maybe Saruman before his fall but it shows his pride, which was his ultimate undoing, rather neatly.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

Subject User Time
Cliffnotes on what will be in the next film? Trakanon Send a private message to Trakanon Jan 4 2013, 4:55am
    Guaranteed? Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Jan 4 2013, 5:35am
        I'd add... moreorless Send a private message to moreorless Jan 4 2013, 10:27am
            White Council/Tombs etc. Rostron2 Send a private message to Rostron2 Jan 4 2013, 4:56pm
    "Almost guaranteed" Michelle Johnston Jan 4 2013, 12:22pm
        I think the Dol Guldur business might play out thus, leaving out some of my musings. . . AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 4 2013, 7:08pm
            Visits to Dol Gulder interacting with Thrain (one or two) Michelle Johnston Jan 4 2013, 10:35pm
                I think the key to the map and key escaping Sauron's notice AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 5 2013, 12:46am
    I will wait after the EE's release before saying what is guaranteed in the next film // painjoiker Send a private message to painjoiker Jan 4 2013, 6:15pm

 
 
 

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