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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The White Council track

Grey Havens

Dec 29 2012, 4:18am

Post #1 of 7 (609 views)
The White Council track Can't Post

I have the special edition of the Hobbit soundtrack, and this is one of the 'extended' tracks. I know that doesn't necessarily mean that it has anything to do with being part of the extended edition of the movie itself, but for this particular track I'm beginning to wonder...

As other have pointed out, there are quite a few differences between the soundtrack and what actually ended up in the movie, and I don't really remember hearing the first couple minutes of this track in the movie. It starts out with the Rivendell theme and then goes into one of Bilbo's themes. I can't remember if there's a name for it yet, but I think it's the one that plays when Gandalf says "you'll have a tale or two of your own to tell when you come back."

I wonder if this was what was supposed to play during Bilbo's little walk through Rivendell that led to him seeing Narsil and talking with Elrond.

(This post was edited by Mooseboy018 on Dec 29 2012, 4:18am)


Dec 29 2012, 4:49am

Post #2 of 7 (323 views)
We know there's more white council footage [In reply to] Can't Post

So it wouldn't surprise me if we get an extended scene in the EE. I'm actually really hoping for it, along with the Narsil scene.

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


Dec 29 2012, 5:10am

Post #3 of 7 (345 views)
The special edition is not simply extended [In reply to] Can't Post

Strangely enough, the tracks between the regular and special editions vary in more than length. Take the "Roast Mutton" track. On the special edition, it features the Misty Mountains motif only once, with a lone brasswind playing an abbreviated snippet. But on the regular edition, the track features something much, much closer to the actual score, with the Misty Mountain motif occurring twice, and quite bombastically both times. I've bought both versions of that track, and I'm curious if the regular versions of "extended" tracks vary just as much.


Dec 29 2012, 5:35am

Post #4 of 7 (307 views)
Glad somebody else noticed this stuff! [In reply to] Can't Post

Got the special edition soundtrack for Christmas and I've been noticing a lot of differences as well. Here are the big ones for me, in no particular order:

--- In the movie version, as Bilbo and Thorin embrace at the very end, the "Gondor Fourth Age" (I believe this is what it is referred to in Douglas Adam's book) theme that plays in ROTK during the destruction of Mordor and Aragorn's crowning plays. This does not happen on the CD. Seems slightly out of place to me in the movie --- this theme is supposed to represent the triumph of Gondor over Mordor, so randomly playing it as a Hobbit and dwarf hug is strange. That being said, I understand sticking this theme here, as the reconciliation that occurs in this scene is a minor triumph of shorts (different races cooperating to tackle a common foe, etc, is not entirely out of line with what the "Gondor Fourth Age" theme is trying to convey).

-- In the movie's opening prologue, as Bilbo describes the glory of Erebor (I believe a map is visible on screen), "the Journey Back" (also referencing Adams here --- this theme plays a few times during the last 45 mins or so of ROTK) plays. Not on the CD.

-- In the movie, as Thorin approaches Azog in the final battle, an epic sort of version of the Nazgul theme plays (similar to the music played as the Hobbits are pursued by ringwraiths in FOTR and when Frodo/Sam/Gollum see a Nazgul in the dead marshes). I imagine they added this to give the battle a more "climactic" feel after they determined the Thorin/Azog showdown would be the final act of AUJ.

-- In the movie, as Gandalf tells Galadriel why he chose to take Bilbo (he gives me courage, etc) the "Hymn setting" of the Shire theme (Douglas' name again) plays; it may or may not be directly lifted from the Breaking of the Fellowship. I don't think this was on the CD.

-- In the movie, when Bilbo finds the ring, the "Ring theme" seems to be a direct quote from the FOTR soundtrack. On the CD, Shore does indeed use the Ring Theme, but it doesn't appear in its full form, it's a less-complete version that sort of hints at the motif as we hear it in FOTR. Probably Shore's way of invoking the Ring's mystery while acknowledging that at this point we don't exactly know it is the One Ring.

There are probably other examples, and I'm sure people have already pointed these out, but I just thought I'd share my thoughts.

I imagine alot of these differences exist because of choices made once it was decided that this series would be a trilogy; you could see how PJ or somebody might've decided to alter Shore's original soundtrack and replace it with LOTR quotes so that scenes like Bilbo and Thorin's hug seemed more emotionally resonant and climactic. I understand their decision to tinker with the film's score a little bit, it doesn't really bother me as long as the complete stuff is on CD.

Looking forward to see if there are any other major ones I'm missing. Magpie (whose LOTR music site is quite prolific) posts around here, I'm sure he/she has noticed some others.

I love the soundtrack --- my favorite musical bit (SO FAR) is from "the Adventure Begins". There is a lovely, upbeat version of the Shire theme that sounds quite similar to the score as Frodo and Sam encounter Pippin and Merry in Farmer Maggot's fields, yet it is much more lively and uses some instruments I don't think were used last time around. It's a delight to listen to.


Dec 29 2012, 10:28pm

Post #5 of 7 (129 views)
Good Thread// [In reply to] Can't Post



Dec 29 2012, 10:53pm

Post #6 of 7 (162 views)
I'm not studying Hobbit music [In reply to] Can't Post


And I especially can't remember what's in the CD and what's in the movie and - from memory - make comparisons. My poor brain doesn't work like that. I'm much more methodical in how I work (hence the dozens of folders with hundreds of sound clips and copious notes).

But I can offer stuff re: LOTR.

I also noticed the similarities between that Shire/Hobbity music in "The Adventure Begins" to other music in LOTR and wrote about it in my Hobbit review:

Very early on in my LOTR score music analysis - before there was a book and a blog and official names for themes - I identified some music I called "Hobbits at Play."

The scene when Bilbo runs out after the Dwarves to start his adventure is so much like those other LOTR moments it was, perhaps, one of my favorite moments in the score just for nostalgia reasons.

FrogmortonJustice65 wrote:

I imagine alot of these differences exist because of choices made once it was decided that this series would be a trilogy; you could see how PJ or somebody might've decided to alter Shore's original soundtrack and replace it with LOTR quotes so that scenes like Bilbo and Thorin's hug seemed more emotionally resonant and climactic. I understand their decision to tinker with the film's score a little bit, it doesn't really bother me as long as the complete stuff is on CD.

Doug has refuted a number of speculations about why the CD is different than the final movie score and why there are LOTR themes in The Hobbit. Rather than try to quote a number of comments he's made, I suggest that people visit his Disqus profile: http://disqus.com/dadams1127/, click on 'Activity', and just read what he's written in the last month. Be sure to click 'load more' till you go back far enough.

He also tweeted after he saw the movie (Dec 15): "By and large ... The #Hobbit score was in the film as it was on the page ... and utterly brilliant."

The question was asked of Doug (by Incanus who may be a member of these boards?):

Since the soundtrack albums have come on sale and people are starting to receive their copies, can you shed light on the bonus tracks on the Special Edition Doug? What are they? Thematic suites? Demos recorded with the orchestra? Extra score cues considered better left at the end of the album for better flow of the music?

Also people have noted how the regular edition of the album contains at least one track (Roast Mutton), which differs from the Special Edition counterpart in content, the regular OST containing a completely different and longer rendition of the Plan 9 melody Over the Misty Mountains Cold in heroic battle mode than the Special Edition, which quickly references the idea. Can you reveal to us, why these different and alternate takes on the scene were chosen for different albums?

Doug answered (on December 9):

I'll talk more about this after the film is out. I'm treading too close to spoilers right now, so I'm zipping my lips! :)


But I can't see that he's answered either of those questions yet.

LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Dec 30 2012, 1:17am

Post #7 of 7 (134 views)
Thanks, Mags! [In reply to] Can't Post

That was a good set of references. I too love the work that went into this. The music was perfect for me.


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