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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Thranduils Elves... Black hair?

Avnar
Rohan


Dec 28 2012, 10:04pm

Post #1 of 24 (1309 views)
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Thranduils Elves... Black hair? Can't Post

Did they all have black hair?? The ones standing with him on the cliff...

I thought that the Elves of Mirkwood would mostly have blonde hair like Thranduil and legolas... Did anyone else notice this? When they all turn around to leave you see they all have long black hair. I found it quite annoying/lazy (like all the men in Gondor had the curly long brown hair under their silver helmets) that they all looked EXACTLY the same. Stupid cgi...

Thoughts?


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 28 2012, 10:09pm

Post #2 of 24 (601 views)
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It's a mixture of blonde and brown hair. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Crunchable Birdses
Rohan


Dec 28 2012, 10:12pm

Post #3 of 24 (687 views)
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Thranduil / Legolas aren't actually Silvan Elves. [In reply to] Can't Post

they just happen to rule over a bunch of Silvan (Wood) Elves, so there's no reason for the other Wood Elves to resemble Thranduil / Legolas.

* crunch *


Mahtion
Rivendell

Dec 28 2012, 10:19pm

Post #4 of 24 (639 views)
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Elves and Hair [In reply to] Can't Post

Technically only the Vanyar had golden hair which was inherited by Galadriel through the House of Finarfin. The Sindar had some silver hair but it was rare aside from Elu Thingol. Some of the Teleri had silver hair as well because they are related to the Sindar. The Noldor mostly had auburn or dark hair like most of the Sindar and Avari. Although the Feanorians had some reddish hair among them, most were dark haired.

Legolas was never supposed to blonde anyway but going by the Films, we can see that only the nobles of Mirkwood have blondish or brown hair. You can see the four Elves with Thranduil paying homage to Thror have mostly light hair except one has light brown.

Also if you look at Lego's Mirkwood sets, the two Elves in Barrel Escape have hair with shades of brown, one dark like Elrond and the other a more chestnut.


Avnar
Rohan


Dec 28 2012, 10:23pm

Post #5 of 24 (563 views)
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Are you sure? [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder if there are any pictures yet...


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 28 2012, 10:26pm

Post #6 of 24 (550 views)
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As sure as you are that they are all brown ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

I've looked at the gif, and I see blonde and brown hair - it's hard to tell until we get hi-res screencaps.

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RalphDamiani
Rivendell

Dec 28 2012, 10:42pm

Post #7 of 24 (565 views)
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That's debatable [In reply to] Can't Post

The case about Legolas and his hair color is an old one that is sure to spark more discussions.

Oropher hailed from Doriath, and we don't know his wife, so it's conceivable that Thranduil and Legolas had a silverly blond hair as they chose to portray them in the films.

I agree, however, there are too many blond elves in PJ's Middle-Earth.

By the way, I noticed some of Thranduil's bodyguard had auburn hair, and we know Tauriel is one of those. So he might use their hair to set them apart from the Rivendell/Lorien elves.


Elthir
Gondor

Dec 28 2012, 10:47pm

Post #8 of 24 (555 views)
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Elves with... appendix hair? [In reply to] Can't Post

Even more technically, according to book sources Peter Jackson is allowed to use (which I realize you were not talking about)...

... the Eldar are generally dark-haired except for the House of Finarfin -> however the Elves of Mirkwood and Lorien are mostly East-elves and not Eldar (again, according to the Appendices Tolkien published), so these Elves are not generally described.


So there are no Vanyar in Jackson's sources (and who would seemingly be mostly dark-haired if they are Eldar, incidentally), and no description in general to help colour the hair of the East-elves of Mirkwood and Lorien.


Elthir
Gondor

Dec 28 2012, 10:58pm

Post #9 of 24 (533 views)
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Posthumously published hair [In reply to] Can't Post

By the way, at one point Tolkien imagined (and jotted down in a primarily linguistic document) that no Elf had absolutely 'black' hair...

... but later he appears to have revised this, as it was said to be found among the Noldor at least, according to the fairly late text called The Shibboleth of Feanor, or notes to this text.


(This post was edited by Elthir on Dec 28 2012, 11:02pm)


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Dec 29 2012, 9:02pm

Post #10 of 24 (274 views)
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Hair salon [In reply to] Can't Post

... if I remember correctly, the Mirkwood Elves are mostly Avari, except for the leaders who are Sindarin. Thranduil is specifically described in The Hobbit (though we won't know his name until LOTR) as a woodland king with a crown of leaves upon his golden hair. Legolas is never mentioned as to hair color, dso the various illustrations of him are all right... I do like the blond thing though, as the first illo I saw of him was blond. And silver seems a bit more awesome and exotic than yellow blond.

Go outside and play...


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 29 2012, 9:18pm

Post #11 of 24 (300 views)
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I saw the film again today ... [In reply to] Can't Post

And I'm pretty sure there's a mixture of hair colour, with the majority being brown.

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Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 29 2012, 9:48pm

Post #12 of 24 (269 views)
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Good grief, Daniel. [In reply to] Can't Post

How many times have you seen it by now? ShockedLaugh

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 29 2012, 9:52pm

Post #13 of 24 (261 views)
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I'm on 5 [In reply to] Can't Post

3D HFR x2
3D 24fps
IMAX 3D
2D

But then I honestly love the film. Evil I'm happy to see it over and over again.

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Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 29 2012, 10:00pm

Post #14 of 24 (250 views)
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Woah [In reply to] Can't Post

The most I've ever seen a film in theaters is four times, I think.

Generally, if I love a film I end up seeing it three times.

And I still haven't seen AUJ for the second time, yet. Crazy

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 29 2012, 10:57pm

Post #15 of 24 (236 views)
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I think grammaboodawg is on number 10. [In reply to] Can't Post

I saw the first three at least 20 times in the theaters. The market has changed in 10 years, so I don't expect The Hobbit to stay in theaters as long as the LOTR movies, but even so, I expect to see it at least 10 times.

I've seen it three times and will once more this weekend.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 29 2012, 11:26pm

Post #16 of 24 (233 views)
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Holy goodness [In reply to] Can't Post

That's unbelievable! Shocked I'm seriously shocked by that, lol. Twenty times...good heavens. I'm just flabbergasted BlushSmile

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 30 2012, 12:19am

Post #17 of 24 (227 views)
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Heh. You should [In reply to] Can't Post

ask grammaboodawg sometime how many times she saw LOTR in theaters. Something like 80, I think. Cool

Silverlode






Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 30 2012, 12:26am

Post #18 of 24 (221 views)
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I will ask her! [In reply to] Can't Post

That just blows my mind!! 80!? I don't think I've even seen them that much in the past 10 years. Shocked

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


Elthir
Gondor

Dec 30 2012, 12:30am

Post #19 of 24 (246 views)
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East-elves [In reply to] Can't Post

Skipping over the draft versions for now, I'm fairly sure the word Avari does not appear in The Lord of the Rings. After the publication of The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien imagined that Avarin Elves had mixed with 'Nandorin' Elves in the Anduin Vale, in a text called Quendi And Eldar...

... but later than this, in description published in Unfinished Tales, Tolkien seems to refer to the Silvan Elves of Mirkwood as Telerin Elves (or descendants of Telerin Elves), and 'Eldar in origin' who gave up the Great March. And here he makes no comment as to whether or not any Avari had joined these Elves in Mirkwood, although at one point he refers to the Elves of Mirkwood as hardly to be distinguished from Avari...

... which seems to say that they weren't... Avari. Well to me anyway.

So the answer is very simple: they were East-elves Wink


(This post was edited by Elthir on Dec 30 2012, 12:33am)


Bladerunner
Gondor


Dec 30 2012, 12:51am

Post #20 of 24 (229 views)
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After the second viewing, do you still hate the HFR?// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 30 2012, 12:55am

Post #21 of 24 (213 views)
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I went in with an open mind... [In reply to] Can't Post

And it was far less distracting the second time round - obviously one does need to adjust to it. Having seen the film in 24fps, the benefits of HFR were a lot more obvioius. However, I still don't like the look and feel of it (the CGI is just too fake).

I gave it another go, but personally, it's not for me.

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imin
Valinor


Dec 30 2012, 1:12am

Post #22 of 24 (203 views)
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I am like that [In reply to] Can't Post

Most films i can only watch once or twice a year and then most after that i very rarely go back to again for many years.

I find it much easier to read something again and again than watch something time after time - gets boring, not to mention bloody expensive in UK cinemas!

I think the most times i have seen one film in the cinema is 3 or 4.

I havent seen the hobbit again but i will be tomorrow, in IMAX 3D so it will be interesting to see if i have a change of opinion on the movie - i think i will (for the positive) as my expectations are non existent now, which is how i should have gone in the first time but i was too excited!


Ardamírë
Valinor


Dec 30 2012, 1:25am

Post #23 of 24 (205 views)
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I basically agree with everything you said [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm still planning to see it in HFR 3D at some point - I just haven't had the opportunity yet.

And yes, I will read books over and over. I do the same with films, just not too many times in cinemas.

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 30 2012, 9:22am

Post #24 of 24 (204 views)
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The best screening for me was ... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I havent seen the hobbit again but i will be tomorrow, in IMAX 3D so it will be interesting to see if i have a change of opinion on the movie - i think i will (for the positive) as my expectations are non existent now, which is how i should have gone in the first time but i was too excited!


In IMAX - and it's the first film I've seen in an IMAX.

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