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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
All right. Knowing one if not all 9 Nazgul are in. . . any hopes/chance of seeing Gandalf battle past them as in the LOTR novel?

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 26 2012, 2:13am

Post #1 of 12 (770 views)
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All right. Knowing one if not all 9 Nazgul are in. . . any hopes/chance of seeing Gandalf battle past them as in the LOTR novel? Can't Post

in his exploration of Dol Guldur? Peter has shown himself, thankfully, more willing to display a greater degree of Gandalf's magic, in keeping with the novels, than he was in the Rings trilogy. One of the great, naturally cinematic scenes mentioned in the novel that was extracted from the movies was Gandalf doing battle with all nine Wraith Lords atop Amon Sul. In the novel, Aragorn and Frodo see the results of the fight without knowing the details, as "Lightning that leaps up from the ground" (very characteristic of Gandalf), and in the form of scorched earth on the hill "as though it were swept by fire." Later, at Elrond's council, we receive the explanation that the Nine Nazgul, who had fled from Gandalf's wrath during the day, surrounded him on Weathertop at night, and battled with him until he broke free of them at dawn, having wielded against them, at the least, "such light and flame" as "has not been seen on Weathertop since the war beacons of old."

The image conjured is absolutely epic. And, while I won't get my hopes high up, I cannot help wondering whether we may see Gandalf investigating Dol Guldur to verify Radagast's claims (as the trailer suggests he will, even if that footage did not make it into film one), and coming up against the Nazgul, all together (a trap after all) and having to battle free of them with his potent magic (perhaps forcing them back with light and flame, and then riding off alongside Radagast on the Bunny Sled). Peter has been known to transplant scenes before, and this would be a perfect place to do it.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Avnar
Rohan


Dec 26 2012, 4:57am

Post #2 of 12 (337 views)
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Would this ruin continuity with Rings? [In reply to] Can't Post

Doesn't Gandalf say that he has never faced the Witch King before or am I assuming that...?

Great idea though!


Istaris'staffs
Rivendell


Dec 26 2012, 5:14am

Post #3 of 12 (315 views)
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Nice idea... [In reply to] Can't Post

Could be in the films some way. Gandalf investigating Dol Guldur is certainly in DOS/TABA, and who knows how PJ will run with that...I think something will happen that will spark a White Council assault. Especially with the whole Galadriel/Gandalf element of the films.

"Are you mad? You'll never out run them, those are Gundabad warns!"
"And these are RHOSGOBEL rabbits! I'd like to see them try."


Magpie
Immortal


Dec 26 2012, 5:49am

Post #4 of 12 (312 views)
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I would have preferred that this piece of info not be in a subject line [In reply to] Can't Post

I consider it - if it's true - to be a spoiler.


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AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 26 2012, 5:51am

Post #5 of 12 (318 views)
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Not exactly. He implies it in the context of the last days of The War of The Ring. [In reply to] Can't Post

By which time Sauron's power had grown greater than it had been even a year before, and being in close proximity to Mordor etc. But in Fellowship it is made clear that he faces off against all of them, from dusk until dawn when he breaks free of their assault and races towards Rivendell. Four of the Nine continue tracking him, which is why only five attacked Weathertop.

Tolkien was trying to play up drama in Return of The King, it must be said, without directly contradicting himself. He amplifies the threat of The Witch King, without ever putting Gandalf to the test against him. There were a number of reasons for avoiding the direct contest, but one major reason was that the Witch-King prevailing in force, even if he was unable to truly vanquish Gandalf, would have gone against everything that had been said in Two Towers and before. It has already been established that The Balrog is the most deadly manner of evil being known even to The Elves, save for Sauron himself, and that Gandalf's new incarnation, even mightier than the one that defeated the Balrog, is more dangerous and powerful than anything known to reside in Middle-Earth aside from, again, Sauron. Thus, some of what goes on in Return of The King is best described as hyping a fight, even though you know what the outcome would almost certainly be.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 26 2012, 5:53am

Post #6 of 12 (292 views)
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Apologies. I didn't consider it thus, mainly because the presence of at least [In reply to] Can't Post

the chief Nazgul is already known due to his presence in the current movie. And Gandalf's presence in Dol Guldur is shown in first trailer, both without and WITH Glamdring.

In Reply To
I consider it - if it's true - to be a spoiler.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Magpie
Immortal


Dec 26 2012, 6:00am

Post #7 of 12 (322 views)
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seeing the Witch King... [In reply to] Can't Post

didn't give me any hints that all the Nazgul would be in upcoming movies.

I know now, don't I?

I understand I run some risk of being spoiled for upcoming movies but where in the heck are we supposed to talk about a movie that's already out but here? There are still people who do not want that kind of info for the upcoming movies. Assume people don't want spoilers and don't know everything ever shown or written about The Hobbit movies... just to be safe. Mark your subject line with 'spoilers' and some vague indication what the post is about and let people choose.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 26 2012, 9:03am

Post #8 of 12 (251 views)
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No, Magpie. You don't know. At least not from me you don't, because I don't know. [In reply to] Can't Post

I posted a hypothesis, based on the fact that at least one Nazgul, their chief, is present in Dol Guldur in The Hobbit, though Radagast dispells him for a time. If there is any spoiler, it is in the matter of the deleted High Fells scene. I don't know that the Nazgul will all be together in Dol Guldur, but it is obvious that they have been brought into these films, as the greatest of their number is present in film one. My question and hope is that we will see something like a cut/copy/paste of Gandalf's known battle with The Nine that was kept out of the Fellowship movie, in part because of the altered timeline. I would love to see a recreation of that fight in Dol Guldur, and it would make perfect sense for it to happen. That said, I don't KNOW that it will happen (I wouldn't have to hope for it if I did). And I don't know that the Nazgul will be more present in film two, though the fact that they (one of them anyway) is present in film one, and his blade a matter of debate, certainly suggests it.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


RalphDamiani
Rivendell

Dec 26 2012, 12:32pm

Post #9 of 12 (189 views)
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I would love to see that [In reply to] Can't Post

And I would love to see Gandalf's confrontation with the Witch King done properly, but that was wasted on that stupid staff breaking scene, which is my least favorite in RotK. :/


stoutfiles
Rohan

Dec 26 2012, 1:29pm

Post #10 of 12 (187 views)
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Which is why it was EE [In reply to] Can't Post

Speaking of which, I wonder how many AUJ scenes would have been EE had they done the two film setup as originally intended? Perhaps some of the scenes I disliked wouldn't have made the theatrical version otherwise.


Magpie
Immortal


Dec 26 2012, 4:21pm

Post #11 of 12 (158 views)
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sorry... I just realized I misread your subject line [In reply to] Can't Post

partly, I tend to misread things in general. I take it as a mild form of dyslexia.

also, I tend to skim subject lines trying to avoid reading spoilers too directly.

For a number of reads (and I didn't post anything till like the 4th or 5th time I came to the Hobbit board), I read your subject line as:

Knowing all 9 Nazgul are in. . .


finally, looking at it closely, I realized what you wrote. So, apologies for channeling Miss Emily Latella. (blast from the past there that only a few will get).


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 26 2012, 10:51pm

Post #12 of 12 (114 views)
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Yeah, you are speaking to my heart. [In reply to] Can't Post

If he drives them back here, Witch-King of Angmar et al, with some Wizard light and flame, JUSTICE will at last be done. lol It will also be an awesome freakin scene.

In Reply To
And I would love to see Gandalf's confrontation with the Witch King done properly, but that was wasted on that stupid staff breaking scene, which is my least favorite in RotK. :/


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

 
 

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