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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Again, Peter Jackson and The Hobbit???....

FinGolFin
The Shire

Nov 19 2007, 6:38am

Post #1 of 25 (881 views)
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Again, Peter Jackson and The Hobbit???.... Can't Post

Reasonably speaking(as I always intend), there r many of u who would likely beat urselves if Peter Jackson(PJ)was not to b involved in making the Hobbit.I say this because of the unreasonable responses I've recieved regarding the case. Let us be reasonable. George Lucas's idea and creation of Star Wars shows that he would only complement in Directing The Hobbit. One Great Film-maker(creator) complementing another great creator, Tolkien. Great because these two Artists gave us(those of us who truely enjoy sci-fi & fantasy)two of the most memorable feasts in film & literature History. All I'm asking is to put aside the NAME P.J., read the books again(with genuine text appreciation) and see the many places P.J., ruined the story---where/when he did not have to. I LOVE TLOTR MOVIES. P.J., did good. I am not putting him down nor degrading his directing. PJ is good. Okay. Good. The Books(if u read them first)were complete(as books usually r over movies). PJ omitted too much, changed too much and added when/where he did not have to. Listen to what he has said regarding his involvement in making TLOTR. George Lucas, Mel Gibson, Gore Verbinski and the Wachowski Brothers have shown hands on Great Works. GREAT WORKS. ORIGINAL WORKS. Extremely memorable works. With MICHAEL MANN to assist with the feely-touchie scenes(wich will likely not happen). These above mentioned Film-makers ARE human. MEANING, they know how to use their immagination, how to make something big(The Hobbit)into what Tolkien intended:what he wrote must stay the way he wrote it. Reasonably speaking. The Hobbit cannot be Played with by any Director, like a new toy a child has just found. PJ did fine, like I said. But I, LOVE THE HOBBIT TOO MUCH, AND I REALLY BELIEVE P.J., WOULD DAMAGE TOLKIENS WORK. Other Directors(including the ones mentioned above)have shown that they can do the job. Not every Scene In Their Movies Are Dodging Bullets, Space Ships, Etc.,Etc...Many scenes have feelig, honesty and much more goodness....


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Nov 19 2007, 6:52pm)


Owlyross
Rohan


Nov 19 2007, 11:04am

Post #2 of 25 (494 views)
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George Lucas???!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

You have got to be joking?

Investing scenes with feeling?

As a director, George Lucas couldn't coax a good performance from De Niro... Hemay have created the Star Wars Universe, but this is the guy who has given the world three of the most risible prequels ever to grace a movie screen. Childish dialogue, ridiculous situations, annoying (and borderline racist) characters. The best Star Wars film (Empire) was great despite George Lucas, not because of him. Don't forget it was directing by George's film school tutor...

Sorry, I couldn't feel more strongly about this...

The Wachowskis? One great movie, and two diminishing seqeuls, each of which failed to live up to the standards set in the previous one...

Mel Gibson... He wouldn't do it, he has to be personally passionate about the films he makes...

Verbinski? A studio monkey. No way would e fight to keep in the things like Jackson... Did you know Jackson fought to stop the studios from including stuff like "Lothlórien was cut with Galadriel attending the Council of Elrond. Denethor, Boromir's father, also attends the Council" or "A Ringwraith kills Saruman and attacks Gandalf at Orthanc. Seeing this from the Seeing Seat, now at Emyn Muil rather than Amon Hen, Frodo puts on the Ring and draws him all the way to the Seat on his Fell beast. Frodo manages to save Sam and stabs the wraith in his heart."

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)


stormcrow20
Gondor


Nov 19 2007, 11:05am

Post #3 of 25 (449 views)
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I think you’ll find many reasonable speakers here. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

I wouldn’t go so far as to say anyone would beat themselves over such a thing. Crazy

I could be mistaken, but I don’t remember anyone being unreasonable towards you in regards to your “case”. Many people welcomed you, despite your typing in all caps and telling us to “just accept it.” If you’re here just to stir up trouble…I’m not an administrator, but I doubt it will be tolerated. If you genuinely want to join the discussions, I think you should try to do so in a less abrasive manner.

To begin with, as has already been pointed out, everyone has their own opinion and personal preference when it comes to who should be involved with The Hobbit. Please don’t hold it against us, as you too have your own opinion, and are entitled to it.

Here, you’ll find a variety of opinions. I think the majority wants Peter Jackson and the entire LotR team involved; if for nothing else but continuity. These same people would gladly welcome a new approach to LotR and The Hobbit as a new, separate set of films later on in the future. And some of these same people might also accept and go see a non-PJ Hobbit film in theaters, if that is how it turns out. You’ll also find people here who would prefer a new, non-PJ approach to Middle-earth right now, but would accept PJ once again. Then there are those who say “No PJ, no way!” or No PJ ever again!”. Luckily, we can all come together here and discuss our opinions and speculations, however biased, in a civil manner, without much judgment. Please keep this in mind, and we’ll try to as well.

Now, as for the Lord of the Rings films, I agree and disagree with you. I would not say PJ ruined the story, I would say he stayed very true to the story, with some exceptions. Yes, there are several moments where PJ and team changed things that I loved about the book. Some changes I like, or sometimes prefer, and some changes he made I loathe and will never understand why they were made. However, some things were changed for understandable reasons such as pacing, time restraints, etc. And some things he changed to suit his personal preference, which is pretty well unavoidable no matter who you have at the helm. And then there are the things that he got right, so right that it’s uncanny.

I feel that Jackson made the best possible films he could, considering the time period in which he began. Fantasy films back then were often frowned upon by the industry, and were rarely taken seriously or to their full potential. With all the big-wigs that they had to deal with, PJ was lucky that he was able to make the films, for the most part, away from the “Lidless Eye” that is Hollywood. Otherwise, I doubt he would have been able to stay as true to the books as he did. Did you know that Miramax (I believe it was) wanted only one film? And only two of the four hobbits? When they agreed to all four hobbits, they wanted one of them to be killed! Jackson basically said “no, thanks” and eventually came to New Line Cinema who asked “Why only two movies when there are three books?”
In other words: I think we are pretty darn lucky we got what we got.


In Reply To
Listen to what he has said regarding his involvement in making TLOTR.



Do you have any references or quotes so we can know what you are referring to?

As for The Hobbit, my preference is to keep as many people from LotR involved as possible. Hopefully, diving back into Middle-earth with a fresh start would (as we have all experienced) rekindle that flame of fandom that they all had when they began work on the Fellowship of the Ring.

Unfortunately, and reasonably speaking, what Tolkien wrote can only stay the way he wrote it in the place that he wrote it: the book. Any filmmaker is going to make changes. It’s unavoidable. You provide a perfect example in George Lucas. He’s still changing and “toying” with his original work thirty years later. If he continues, there will come a time when we will no longer be able to see the “original” Star Wars, as it once was. Some of the biggest Star Wars fans argue that Lucas ruined his own creation by making the prequel trilogy. If Lucas can’t stay true to his own work, and leave it alone, why would he, how could he, stay true to someone else’s work? This is another point where our opinions differ. I would hate to see how Lucas or Gibson or Spielberg or Bay (*shudder*) would damage Professor Tolkien’s work. That’s my opinion. I’ll respect yours if you respect mine!

I didn’t intend to become this involved, and I don’t mean to ruffle your feathers too much. As you now know, we are a passionate bunch here, especially when it comes to Tolkien!

I encourage you to stick around and join in some of the discussions. Talk about things you do like about the LotR films. Speculate with us on The Hobbit. We know where you stand on directors, so what actors would you cast? What scenes are you most looking forward to?

Join the discussions in the Reading Room, where the books are their specialty! They actually are reading the LotR books again, and then coming here to discuss it. I doubt you’ll ever see more “text appreciation” than you will there!

Just keep in mind that we, too, love The Hobbit.

Peace.

Expect me when you see me.


vtboyarc
Lorien

Nov 19 2007, 5:06pm

Post #4 of 25 (431 views)
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PJ did fantastic job [In reply to] Can't Post

The LotR films are amazing, and I would have to say that thats thanks mostly to Peter Jackson. Watch the behind the scenes DVDs. everyone mentions how amazing PJ is, his creative ideas, his visions for LotR.
I think, I know, that he will be remembered forever as the director of the best movies ever


Advising Elf
Rohan


Nov 19 2007, 5:24pm

Post #5 of 25 (417 views)
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Is your keyboard broken? [In reply to] Can't Post

Many of your keys apparently work only intermittently, and the "Enter" key obviously doesn't work at all.

Yahoo!Group with good stuff to download:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LOTRgoodies/


vtboyarc
Lorien


Nov 19 2007, 5:26pm

Post #6 of 25 (398 views)
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me? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Theres some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and its worth fighting for.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 19 2007, 6:11pm

Post #7 of 25 (415 views)
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Are you viewing threads in "flat" mode? [In reply to] Can't Post

You appear to think that Advising Elf is replying to your post, but it's clear to viewers using "threaded" mode that he is responding to FinGolFin. If you want, you can adjust using the "Edit Profile" options.

Also, it's helpful, when entering a no-text post (i.e. one with only a subject line) to indicate that you've done so in the subject line, using "nt" or "//" or some other indicator (e.g., you might have titled your post, ""me? //" ). That way folks know not to bother opening your post to read when there's nothing there.

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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Nov. 12-18 for "A Shortcut to Mushrooms".


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 19 2007, 6:14pm

Post #8 of 25 (386 views)
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Hint: click to "view threaded" [In reply to] Can't Post

when you're viewing a thread, so you can see who's responding to whom. You'll see that here, AdElf is responding to FinGolFin.

"View flat mode" is great for reading all posts, but it puts them in chronologically-posted order, instead of thread-subthread.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 19 2007, 6:14pm

Post #9 of 25 (396 views)
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Nicely said. [In reply to] Can't Post

My take on Jackson's achievement is more negative than most, but in general terms, I agree with most of what you've eloquently said.

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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Nov. 12-18 for "A Shortcut to Mushrooms".


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 19 2007, 6:17pm

Post #10 of 25 (399 views)
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"the director of the best movies ever" [In reply to] Can't Post

That would be Akira Kurosawa.

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Join us Nov. 12-18 for "A Shortcut to Mushrooms".


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 19 2007, 9:22pm

Post #11 of 25 (422 views)
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*sets whip aside* [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Reasonably speaking (as I always intend)...

Glad to hear it.


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...there are many of you who would likely beat yourselves if Peter Jackson (PJ) was not to be involved in making The Hobbit.

I don't think there'd be any self-flagellation here, though some folks would certainly disappointed. I have mixed feelings. Though I'm not fond of Jackson's LotR films, I don't see them as total failures, and I recognize their popularity, so I'm half inclined to let him have a chance to redeem himself. And having a matched set of films by the same director might be nice -- someone else can take their shot at the whole in the future. On the other hand, it will be quite some time before anyone does, so maybe it would help to see an alternate vision of Middle-earth now.


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I say this because of the unreasonable responses I've received regarding the case.

Can you provide specifics? Looking over your two posts on this subject on Main, I don't see any replies that could be deemed unreasonable.


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Let us be reasonable. George Lucas's idea and creation of Star Wars shows that he would only complement in directing The Hobbit ... Great because these two artists gave us (those of us who truly enjoy sci-fi & fantasy) two of the most memorable feasts in film & literature History.

Can you talk a bit about what you admired in Star Wars films (or American Graffiti? or THX 1138?) that you feel is applicable to a Hobbit film?


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One great film-maker (creator) complementing another great creator, Tolkien.

Is it possible a truly great filmmaker would be less faithful to the source, as s/he forges something cinematic out of a textual original?


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All I'm asking is to put aside the name, P.J., read the books again (with genuine text appreciation)...

I think Jackson's fans here have no particular attachment to Jackson as a name; rather, they genuinely admire what he did with LotR. And many people here regularly re-read Tolkien's work. (In the Reading Room this week, we're discussing "A Conspiracy Unmasked".)


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...and see the many places P.J. ruined the story -- where/when he did not have to. I love the LotR movies. P.J. did good. I am not putting him down nor degrading his directing. PJ is good. Okay. Good.

Could you talk at a little more length about what you didn't like about Jackson's LotR?


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The books (if you read them first) were complete (as books usually are over movies).

Tolkien said the books were too short.


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P.J. omitted too much, changed too much and added when/where he did not have to. Listen to what he has said regarding his involvement in making the LotR.

For example?


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George Lucas, Mel Gibson, Gore Verbinski and the Wachowski Brothers have shown hands on Great Works. Great works. Original works. Extremely memorable works.

Again, could you specify which films you are thinking of --The Man without a Face? Mouse Hunt? Bound?-- and what aspects of those films you think relate to filming The Hobbit?


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With Michael Mann to assist with the feely-touchie scenes (which will likely not happen).

Why him? And what touchy-feely scenes in The Hobbit are you thinking of? And why do you think they will be omitted?


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These above mentioned film-makers are human. Meaning, they know how to use their immagination, how to make something big (The Hobbit) into what Tolkien intended: what he wrote must stay the way he wrote it. Reasonably speaking.

You seem to be quite a fan of The Hobbit. How does it compare to Tolkien's other works, in your opinion? What do you admire about it? What would you like to see on film? What are the biggest pitfalls for a filmmaker who adapts The Hobbit?


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The Hobbit cannot be played with by any Director, like a new toy a child has just found. P.J. did fine, as I said. But I love The Hobbit too much, and I really believe P.J. would damage Tolkien's work.

What mistakes did Jackson make with LotR (or King Kong, or other) that you feel he is again likely to make with The Hobbit?


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Other directors (including the ones mentioned above) have shown that they can do the job. Not every scene In their movies are dodging bullets, space ships, etc., etc. Many scenes have feeling, honesty and much more goodness.

Most of Jackson's LotR audience, even curmudgeons like myself, found at least some scenes with feeling and honesty. What about you?

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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Nov. 12-18 for "A Shortcut to Mushrooms".


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 19 2007, 9:56pm

Post #12 of 25 (376 views)
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He better not!! [In reply to] Can't Post

But I, LOVE THE HOBBIT TOO MUCH, AND I REALLY BELIEVE P.J., WOULD DAMAGE TOLKIENS WORK.

If Mr. Jackson really believes that he can come to my town, break into my house, sneak into my study, and tear up my copy of The Hobbit then he has another think coming.

And if you think he's coming to your place to do the same you probably better check your med-planner. It sounds like you missed a couple of days.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 19 2007, 10:23pm

Post #13 of 25 (381 views)
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I was thinking it was a message from Archy... [In reply to] Can't Post

...though I was puzzled by the lack of any reference to Mehitabel.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Magpie
Immortal


Nov 20 2007, 12:09am

Post #14 of 25 (348 views)
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LOL! [In reply to] Can't Post

I suspect that one will zoom right past though....



weaver
Half-elven

Nov 20 2007, 3:17am

Post #15 of 25 (336 views)
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**zoomed** over me... [In reply to] Can't Post

But I laughed anyway, as if Darkstone said it, it has to be funny....!

Weaver



Timbo_mbadil
Rivendell


Nov 20 2007, 5:31pm

Post #16 of 25 (345 views)
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Trying to remain reasonable… [In reply to] Can't Post

…nah! PJ may not be the best filmmaker of all times, but all others I can think of (especially the ones you mentioned) would only be worse.
And here's an advice to any bookworm out there who has his favourite one 'come to the theatre' – don't go see it, they don't stand a chance in *not* ruining it for you.
Cheers
t


Otherness represents that which bourgeois ideology cannot recognize or accept but must deal with (…)
Robin Wood 2003, p. 49. "Hollywood from Vietnam to Reagan – and beyond". Columbia University Press, New York, Chichester, West Sussex.


fmaximus
Rivendell


Nov 21 2007, 3:00am

Post #17 of 25 (307 views)
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Yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

"there r many of u who would likely beat urselves if Peter Jackson(PJ)was not to b involved in making the Hobbit."

There will definately be some beatings if PJ is not involved.
And it won't be on ourselves I'll guarantee you that ... Shocked


Reptile
Rivendell


Nov 22 2007, 4:00am

Post #18 of 25 (310 views)
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Again, with the Dungolfin... [In reply to] Can't Post

You seem very familiar to me.

To all the rest of these comments, I would add: this is art, not religion. If Tolkien himself were involved, don't you think he might have made a few changes?

"If you listen closely, you can hear the gods laughing."


Kanyver
Registered User


Nov 22 2007, 4:13am

Post #19 of 25 (291 views)
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Agreed. [In reply to] Can't Post

These books are amazing, stunning, even, but so many people have put so much.... dare I say "faith" into these books, that they tend to loose track of the fact that it is simply a book. There is no perfect.

Sir (Fin), you may always choose to simply not watch the movie if it's not made by your (apparently) beloved directors.

And, as a personal favor to those of us who actually take the time to read your posts, please use the keys. Like Dark said, they seem to not be working properly. 0_o


FinGolFin
The Shire

Nov 23 2007, 12:22am

Post #20 of 25 (306 views)
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Peter Jackson and the Hobbit.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Everyone stuck on P.J could not disagree with me more than to go against everything I post. I loved TLOTR...Some of u have posted some changes in the movies from the books, and most of these mentioned changes were fine. Some of my LARGE disappointments were:The Hobbits were giants;these actors did not have to be well known(or known at all). Most of the times they seemed some five feet+ tall, and at others their true Hobbit size. It was truely awful to see this. They needed to hire the shortest possible, normal walking people-wich there exist in most places of the world...If PJ is to b admired so much, could'nt he have made it so that Sarumans death was not pages torn away from the book? And completely changed? Was PJ throwing his religious(or lack there of)beliefs in that he said the orcs in Moria were able to climb like spiders because "they would have ivolved"? Thats kind of saying that Tolkien wasn't thinking. Not showing the death of Sauron in a cloud of smoke when the tower fell was degrading the meaning and power of Sauron... Guys, Please, lets humble ourselves and see these real huge ( and unnecessary) mistakes or intentional shortcommings. You truely can't say in all honesty and ur heart of hearts that these were well eddited in the movie. There are other things PJ did not have to play with too much away from the text.....
Everyone is sssssso trendy. They fallow the belief of the mojority. All Star Wars were equaly fascinating...The arguments can go on and on and on...The same can b said of The Matrix...And there r a handful of directors that would do and amazing job with The Hobbit...De niro? I have not seen anything truely good from him(he's another trend)....If PJ had not done TLOTR, we now would b as happy with the movie......


Rabittooth
Bree


Nov 23 2007, 1:13am

Post #21 of 25 (307 views)
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Welp... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think this is just a case of you underestimating the enormity of the task taken on by PJ and crew to visually represent some of the most beloved and revered works of literature in the English language. Also...it's impossible to please everyone. The guy sure did his best though and I for one think he did a brilliant job.
It's unfortunate that you're disappointed in what he created. I'm sure you're not alone.
I just cannot agree with you though, despite the fact that you seem to think I and others must.

Cool

-Rabittooth

www.rabittooth.com


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 23 2007, 3:58am

Post #22 of 25 (284 views)
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You're right. They should give the job to Michael Winterbottom. [In reply to] Can't Post


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Everyone stuck on P.J. could not disagree with me more than to go against everything I post.


What does that mean? To me, it reads as a tautology.


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The Hobbits were giants; these actors did not have to be well known (or known at all). Most of the times they seemed some five feet+ tall, and at others their true Hobbit size. It was truely awful to see this. They needed to hire the shortest possible, normal-walking people -- who exist in most places of the world


Show me where in the text it says that Hobbits look more like real-world little people than like scaled-down people. The four actors chosen for the principal Hobbit roles were not big stars: Wood and Astin were B-list actors, while Monaghan and Boyd were not widely known at all. I disliked the films, but rarely noticed any flaws in the portrayal of Hobbit size.


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If P.J. is to be admired so much, couldn't he have made it so that Saruman's death was not pages torn away from the book? And completely changed?


Well, in the version I saw, Saruman didn't die.


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Was P.J. throwing in his religious beliefs (or lack thereof) when he said the orcs in Moria were able to climb like spiders because "they would have evolved"? Thats kind of saying that Tolkien wasn't thinking.


I disliked that aspect of Jackson's Moria-orcs, but not because of his comments on them, of which I was unaware; I'm not sure that Tolkien would have objected to such comments, however.


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Not showing the death of Sauron in a cloud of smoke when the tower fell was degrading to the meaning and power of Sauron


Well, surely Sauron deserves whatever he gets.


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Please, lets humble ourselves and see these huge (and unnecessary) mistakes or intentional shortcommings. You truly can't say in all honesty and your heart of hearts that these were well edited in the movie.


I can say that the editing has nothing to do with it.


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Everyone is sssssso trendy. They follow the belief of the mojority. All Star Wars were equally fascinating


It's hard to follow your argument here: are you saying that only the trendy who follow the belief of the majority find the six Star Wars films to be equally fascinating? Or is this valuation of the films your opinion? I certainly don't agree with that rating.


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The same can be said of The Matrix


Again, what are you saying? Most people felt the first Matrix film was superior to its sequels, and that the third film was an especial disappointment.


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De Niro? I have not seen anything truly good from him (he's another trend)


Robert De Niro is hardly held up as a first-rate director, and has only directed two films, I think. But both A Bronx Tale and The Good Shepherd have their fans (I've seen neither). Could you say what you like and dislike about them, and how those qualities do and don't apply to The Hobbit?

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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Nov. 19-25 for "A Conspiracy Unmasked".


Owlyross
Rohan


Nov 23 2007, 10:27am

Post #23 of 25 (278 views)
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Wellity [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Some of my LARGE disappointments were:The Hobbits were giants;these actors did not have to be well known(or known at all). Most of the times they seemed some five feet+ tall, and at others their true Hobbit size. It was truely awful to see this. They needed to hire the shortest possible, normal walking people-wich there exist in most places of the world...


I don't think they looked normal sized, and certainly not giants. I don't think there was one moment where I looked at a Hobbit and said, oh my god, that's a giant!


Quote
If PJ is to b admired so much, could'nt he have made it so that Sarumans death was not pages torn away from the book? And completely changed?


Well, I'm not a fan of Saruman's death, mainly for its schlock factor, does he really have to fall from the pinnacle of Orthanc? Why not the balcony... If they did have to have him die there (lack of the Scouring and all that) it could have been handled slightly better...


Quote
Was PJ throwing his religious(or lack there of)beliefs in that he said the orcs in Moria were able to climb like spiders because "they would have ivolved"? Thats kind of saying that Tolkien wasn't thinking.


Or is it saying something that you don't agree with? It seems from the tone of your post that you're not a fan of the theory of evolution... Well, there's a lot of evidence out there that say it is the case. I like the fact that Orcs left alone in a place for many years could develop characteristics that would help them in that environment... But with those big eyes no wonder they ran away when the Balrog arrived with all his flames... "My eyes!!! I'm BLIIIIIIND!!!

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Not showing the death of Sauron in a cloud of smoke when the tower fell was degrading the meaning and power of Sauron... Guys, Please, lets humble ourselves and see these real huge ( and unnecessary) mistakes or intentional shortcommings. You truely can't say in all honesty and ur heart of hearts that these were well eddited in the movie. There are other things PJ did not have to play with too much away from the text.....


I wouldn't say it was a huge mistake... The "death" of Sauron mirrored his first "death" at the start of the film. I respect that consistency... In fact I respect the fact that the films were made to be internally consistent (well, two things weren't, Frodo telling Sam to get back down that mountain, and Arwen on her deathbed...


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Everyone is sssssso trendy. They fallow the belief of the mojority. All Star Wars were equaly fascinating...The arguments can go on and on and on...The same can b said of The Matrix...


I disagree... The Phantom Menance is not equally fascinating as Empire, simply because Empire delves deeply into the human condition and the nature of evil... Where does Phantom do that?


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And there r a handful of directors that would do and amazing job with The Hobbit...


I agree... I happen to believe PJ would be one of them.


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De niro? I have not seen anything truely good from him(he's another trend)....


You're right, Taxi Driver, Godfather part 2, Raging Bull, Once Upon a Time in America, all rubbish. Thanks for enlightening me.


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If PJ had not done TLOTR, we now would b as happy with the movie......




Who knows... It's a totally hypothetical question.


"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)


fmaximus
Rivendell


Nov 24 2007, 4:10am

Post #24 of 25 (252 views)
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The thing is... [In reply to] Can't Post

that there are very few directors out there who would or could devote 10 intense years on a project as complicated as the LOTR trilogy.
The attention to detail in these movies are amazing. 3-1/2 hours per movie + all the extras sais it all.

Were the movies perfect?
Of course not.
Are the books perfect?
I don't think so.

But they are both still amazing pieces of work none the less. IMO


(This post was edited by fmaximus on Nov 24 2007, 4:13am)


aragons girl
Registered User


Nov 27 2007, 4:43am

Post #25 of 25 (310 views)
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behind the scenes and commentary a must see [In reply to] Can't Post

You took the words right out of my mouth....i think i whatch the behind the scenes and commentary more than the movies.I have no doubt that it it was his vision and drive for perfection in every aspect of makeing these films that made them what they are.Just listening to the actors,design teams etc talk about him with such respect ....it makes me strive for perfection in my work.

 
 

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