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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Advice for Peter Jackson!
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Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Dec 8 2012, 10:36pm

Post #26 of 48 (261 views)
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compare it [In reply to] Can't Post

to the gritty realism of lotr...there is something to be said about the believability that lotr extoled on audiences due to its world and violence being grounded on a foundation of reality, almost as if it felt historical and dangerous and life threatening...

These goblins sweept aside like tatoes, the roped acrobacies more akin to a Goblin Cardinali Circus, Kili deflecting theire arrows with his sword....i dont know, it feels different...

I dont feel these goblins are as dangerous as the Moria goblins...

Then again, this could have been made more innocent and childish because TH is a childrens book, but my understanding was that PJ was beefing up the tone in order to tell this story in the same world of Lotr...


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Dec 8 2012, 10:42pm

Post #27 of 48 (265 views)
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I'm alright with a light movie [In reply to] Can't Post

but it also has to have dark elements, and goblin town just seems to have no danger at all. It is full of total-CGI goblins who look nearly all the same, the company throws them over the bridge without any struggle and dwalins ladder- and thorins "cut the robes"-move is cleary made for a very young audience who laugh at this "funny" elements. Goblins might not be the smartest creatures, but they are in the majority, but don't seem to be able to handle those 13 dwarfs at all.. I mean, come on..

Also.. I think goblin town is too bright, color-wise, what do you people think?


(This post was edited by Valandil ed Imladris on Dec 8 2012, 10:44pm)


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Dec 8 2012, 10:51pm

Post #28 of 48 (249 views)
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Well, i don't see it. [In reply to] Can't Post

This seems pretty realistic to me, actually. Putting the ladder on them and using that (or a log) to push them away feels entirely possible. Goblins are pretty small and dwarfs are strong. Aragorn deflected a knife. It's not like Kili makes super movies, he's just holding the sword in front of him and the arrows happen to hit it. That's movies. Wink Don't mind acrobatic goblins either. In FOTR they could climb walls heads down.


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Dec 8 2012, 10:52pm

Post #29 of 48 (239 views)
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We agree on that, it could have been darker. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Dec 8 2012, 10:53pm

Post #30 of 48 (240 views)
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I have no problem with acrobatic goblins [In reply to] Can't Post

but with the way they are being ditched by Thorin in the "cut the ropes" sequence


Macsen
Lorien

Dec 8 2012, 10:55pm

Post #31 of 48 (267 views)
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Waaarg [In reply to] Can't Post

The problem is that the goblins don't put up any kind of struggle. The dwarves run through them like Mario running through a line of coins.

The same is true about the warg clip, they're killed within seconds. In LOTR it felt as if some effort went into killing the goblins and the wargs. They felt more grounded and real and scary. Frown


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Dec 8 2012, 10:57pm

Post #32 of 48 (237 views)
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Man, they are putting a lot of clips online. I think i've seen enough. ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Dec 8 2012, 10:58pm

Post #33 of 48 (237 views)
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AUJ may seem a bit over the top - [In reply to] Can't Post

- but then again it's based on the story that describes how Bandobras invented golf.




___________________________________________________


From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.


Notanelvishname
Lorien

Dec 8 2012, 11:02pm

Post #34 of 48 (234 views)
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It's an adventure... [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo writes it as a tale. There is no actual danger, you are right. It is childish, but not for children.
But it is also a journey. A journey that will get darker and darker. Danger will arise, true danger. And eventually a price must be paid.

I don't think the cgi inform the look of the movie. It allows for this look.


Username4242
Bree

Dec 8 2012, 11:03pm

Post #35 of 48 (269 views)
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Need I remind you of... [In reply to] Can't Post

...this? Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMjkfZ3q8tE

Frankly, the goblin town sequence (at least what we've seen of it) is no less over the top than Legolas single-handedly killing the oliphant, or sliding down the stairs and shooting / killing orcs left and right.

This is not new territory for these films!


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Dec 8 2012, 11:15pm

Post #36 of 48 (212 views)
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It's really not, i agree. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Tim
Tol Eressea


Dec 8 2012, 11:18pm

Post #37 of 48 (222 views)
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No offense but I can't believe you're comparing it to the Moria goblins [In reply to] Can't Post

who skittered down walls and columns like spiders, hardly gritty realism. And then we have Legolas prancing about on chains and on top of the troll in Moria, not gritty realism there.

I like the over-the-top stuff, I'll be first to admit. And there's plenty in LOTR.

Arthur: What manner of man are you that can summon up fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: I... am an enchanter.
Arthur: By what name are you known?
Tim: There are some who call me... 'Tim'...?
Arthur: ...greetings, Tim the Enchanter.


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Dec 8 2012, 11:27pm

Post #38 of 48 (210 views)
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I know there is plenty over the top stuff in LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

but I Moria was still dark and nasty and the battle at the Pelennor gave us a sense of danger (at least before the trio showed up with their ghost army) .. and so I do hope that goblin town also includes moments with darker elements than we see in the clip. If you know what I mean.


Pousette
Rivendell


Dec 8 2012, 11:33pm

Post #39 of 48 (190 views)
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Agreed! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Macsen
Lorien

Dec 8 2012, 11:34pm

Post #40 of 48 (200 views)
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But, but... [In reply to] Can't Post

There's nothing wrong with 'over the top'.

(And Legolas running up a chain isn't that far-fetched, the only problem was the poor CGI.)

The problem with the goblin town clip is that:

The CGI isn't bad, but it is rather cartoony. The goblins look silly rather than scary. The LOTR goblins looked scary.

Compare the LOTR goblin: http://cdn1.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/A-goblin-in-Lord-of-the-Rings.jpg

To the toddler-proportioned 'goofy' goblin of the Hobbit.

They're also killed far too easily. You never feel as though the dwarves are in any danger. Even a brief skirmish or a sense the dwarves were being pushed back towards a ledge would have done the trick.


Pousette
Rivendell


Dec 8 2012, 11:37pm

Post #41 of 48 (188 views)
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Haha! Also... [In reply to] Can't Post

it seems his mouth appear on his throat as well! Looks exactly like his teeth!


Username4242
Bree

Dec 8 2012, 11:38pm

Post #42 of 48 (202 views)
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This is only a clip of the full sequence. [In reply to] Can't Post

So, I wouldn't worry too much.


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Dec 8 2012, 11:38pm

Post #43 of 48 (189 views)
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totally agree! [In reply to] Can't Post

when you see the goblins stuck in dwalins ladder for a moment, their faces look pretty regular and boring compared to the fierce moria ones!


Tim
Tol Eressea


Dec 8 2012, 11:45pm

Post #44 of 48 (195 views)
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We'll have to agree to disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

From the clips I've seen, the orcs look different, but not less scary than the Moira orcs - who didn't scare me at all. The only person I felt like could be in any kind of peril was Frodo and that was when he was being chased after by the big troll.

From the clips of Goblintown, the dwarves cleverly get a large wooden beam and then like three or four of them hold it and use it as a lever to push goblins off. Not any more out there than tight-rope Legolas (and yes walking a chain in the middle of combat while everything's moving about is cool and very over the top, not to mention him balancing on the moving troll's head).

Them cutting a swath through the goblins also reminds me of the the horse charge during Helm's Deep down the ramp, big orcs in armor scattering like leaves before the horses. I can handle it, and it looked cool.

I can't pronounce final judgment on the CGI, it looks fine in the clips but not photo-realistic. I'm seeing it in youtube clips in lower resolution. Same with the wargs, they don't look photo-realistic either. But they don't look terrible.

Arthur: What manner of man are you that can summon up fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: I... am an enchanter.
Arthur: By what name are you known?
Tim: There are some who call me... 'Tim'...?
Arthur: ...greetings, Tim the Enchanter.


Macsen
Lorien

Dec 8 2012, 11:50pm

Post #45 of 48 (184 views)
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Weta seems to have an issue with wargs... [In reply to] Can't Post

... the Two Towers wargs looked awful, and from what 'm hearing about the final battle in AUJ the wargs look awful there too.

We can only hope they release a Hobbit-LOTR special edition at some point, re-do the wargs, make sure greebo shoots first, and so on...


Finrod
Rohan


Dec 9 2012, 12:28am

Post #46 of 48 (173 views)
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Wolf Wargs >> Hyena Wargs [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The Two Towers wargs looked awful, and from what 'm hearing about the final battle in [The Hobbit: Part 1] the wargs look awful there too.

We can only hope they release a Hobbit–[Lord of the Rings] special edition at some point, re-do the wargs, make sure greebo shoots first, and so on...


Don’t worry, The Hobbit’s wargs look just fine in the trailers. Really, then do. They are supposed to be demon-dogs and hell-hounds, which is what they sure look like to me.

…all eyes looked upon the ring; for he held it now aloft, and the green jewels gleamed there that the Noldor had devised in Valinor. For this ring was like to twin serpents, whose eyes were emeralds, and their heads met beneath a crown of golden flowers, that the one upheld and the other devoured; that was the badge of Finarfin and his house.
The Silmarillion, pp 150-151
while Felagund laughs beneath the trees
in Valinor and comes no more
to this grey world of tears and war.
The Lays of Beleriand, p 311




jtarkey
Rohan


Dec 9 2012, 1:08am

Post #47 of 48 (158 views)
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Just wanted to point out... [In reply to] Can't Post

I read somewhere that Viggo actually deflected a knife with his sword. So not only is something like that possible, it actually happened in LOTR. And if that's true, it makes Viggo the biggest bad*** of all time.

I understand the complaints about the OTT feel of goblin town. When compared with the battles in LOTR it's fairly different. But if you think of it, there was always OTT stunts within the sequences and battles in LOTR.

This could be a good way to connect the two trilogies. The Hobbit can have a lot of OTT action mixed with some gritty action. LOTR can have a lot of gritty realistic battles sprinkled with some OTT sequences. Seems to work well to me.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 9 2012, 2:02am

Post #48 of 48 (186 views)
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i love this clip (and it's the only one i watched) [In reply to] Can't Post

i love this clip.

why are people adverse to Goblintown being a fun, elaborate setpiece? i wish the goblins had a little more "weight" to them but otherwise i think this is the perfect kind of action-adventure clip to have in the first film of The Hobbit before bringing the audience something a little darker and more intense with Riddles in the Dark.

it looks to be exceptionally clever action sequence and gorgeously rendered. but, hey, i love King Kong's action for similar reasons, so maybe i'm biased.

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