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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Rotten tomatoes (*waves wand)* - this now becomes the Fourth Official One Review Thread to Rule them All links to other review threads inside) - Please post reviews and related comments HERE!
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Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 7 2012, 9:48am

Post #51 of 73 (629 views)
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It's a matter of taste, of course. [In reply to] Can't Post

I know plenty of people who don't enjoy them. After having said I wouldn't bore you with an explanation, I'm going to anyway. Tongue The way I look at it is this:

If you have a book that is told from the viewpoint of an "omniscient" third person (as most books are), you have described for you not only the setting, and the action, but also the inner thoughts and feelings of at least the major characters. Books tell rather than show and the reader then pictures for himself what he has been told. One of the challenges of adapting a book to dramatic form, whether stage or screen, is that this is reversed: films (and stage productions) show rather than tell much of the time. Unless one resorts to voice-overs or extensive expositional dialogue, we rely on the actors to convey most of the emotion without outright telling us about it. Music is a third medium of storytelling, often referred to as a language of the heart - it conveys thought and emotion through both words and melodies. As a fan of opera, you're surely familiar with this.

Musicals are a sort of hybrid of these three approaches, with the events of the story being shown through action and the inner life of the characters being told through song.

Most of the people I know who don't like musicals view them as the characters going through life and then randomly bursting out in song as if the character were actually proclaiming their emotions to the world at the top of their lungs. Since most people would find this awkward and embarrassing in real life, they find it awkward and embarrassing in a musical. I can't speak for all fans of musicals, but I see it quite differently. The songs are not meant to be interpreted as real-life or real-time happenings - they take the place of the omniscient narrator and represent the inner life of the character. Musicals alternate between being shown (action and interaction of characters) and being told (song revealing character's inner life/heart). Musicals are a much more impressionistic and interpretive form of art than either literature or straight drama. They're a representational rather than a literal presentation of a story. More like a fantasy than a crime drama, perhaps. It's possible to enjoy both for different reasons, and I do. Cool

Silverlode






Crunchable Birdses
Rohan


Dec 7 2012, 10:28am

Post #52 of 73 (602 views)
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Reading *anything* from a British tabloid is likely to damage your health [In reply to] Can't Post

The Mirror, The Daily Mail, The Sun...honestly the best cause of action is just to set fire to these rags before you accidently read something from them.

* crunch *


Crunchable Birdses
Rohan


Dec 7 2012, 10:34am

Post #53 of 73 (622 views)
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Heh, I looked it up and... [In reply to] Can't Post

I must say, I can't believe how much the Director, Tom Hooper, looks exactly like a younger James Cameron.

* crunch *


Balrogslunch
The Shire

Dec 7 2012, 10:50am

Post #54 of 73 (578 views)
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I have never bought a newspaper in years.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I have never touched a newspaper in years....I think they lower your IQ....the news they have in them is outdated as soon as they finish printing....within 10 years there will be half as many printed papers and the ones that can adapt will have a 'Live' websites for tablets and pc (its happening now to some degree) for there news(views) which change every hour......they will only make their money through this if they get advertising revenue through adverts on screen.....the only papers you will probably have will be City ones that are given away free at stations and city centres.....


herzogian
Bree

Dec 7 2012, 10:56am

Post #55 of 73 (590 views)
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Musical [In reply to] Can't Post

You make some good points here.

Opera and musical indeed share the use of music as a medium through wich we can hear the characters thoughts, feelings etc. But there are some big differences. First in the style of music. I think the kind of music used in musicals is rather cheap, bombastic and generic. Take for instance the famous 'Susan Boyle song' from les Miserables. I don't like it because its oversentimental and dramatic. There are more subtle ways to bring over such feelings. Off course you can say that this is matter of taste. Some like the theme's from musicals others don't. Also opera has no normal dialogue. All the text is in the form of singing. So an opera does not only express the feelings of the characters it also contains the dialogue. A musical does have these dialogues and thats another reason why i find it so hard to like them. Because when they start singing after having a part with normal dialogue i am suddenly thrown out of the story. But maybe thats a matter of habituation. Also i don't think i would like opera as a form of cinema, as a movie. It just wont work in my mind. You have to see it on stage.

I agree with you when you say that music can enhance the cinematic experience. But there are different kinds of music.Lotr for instance is a good example. Though Lotr certainly is no musical, Howard Shore's track acts like a sort of dialogue trough the movie. It differs from musicals because there is no use of words and because its another kind of music. Its more subtle you dont hear Frodo singing: Oh no the ring is getting to me! Heavier Heavier all the time while im taking this big climb! No instead you hear the ringtheme, the theme through witch you can feel how Frodo is getting more and more enslaved to the power of the ring. In this sense a musical is less interpretive and impressionistic than such films (good cinema). There is no literal text saying something in a literal way through the means of a song. No, there is a mixture of elements, music, image, acting which creates a certain atmosphere. You have to work more to understand these feelings but it is in my mind more rewarding.


(This post was edited by herzogian on Dec 7 2012, 11:02am)


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 7 2012, 11:36am

Post #56 of 73 (544 views)
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Also known as my birthday! ;-) / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Jettorex
Lorien


Dec 7 2012, 1:54pm

Post #57 of 73 (513 views)
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Because [In reply to] Can't Post

Reviewers these days are totally clueless. If there is not constant action they dont get it. They have no idea of what a real good fantasy movie is like.

The more I read the negative reviews, the more I know the movie will be great.


- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."


My Book---> www.amazon.com/Popcornmaker


BeornBerserker
Lorien

Dec 7 2012, 2:05pm

Post #58 of 73 (588 views)
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new review [In reply to] Can't Post

http://hollywoodandfine.com/reviews/the-hobbit-an-unexpected-journey-great-expectations/


BeornBerserker
Lorien

Dec 7 2012, 3:01pm

Post #59 of 73 (499 views)
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short but good review [In reply to] Can't Post

http://stcommunities.straitstimes.com/2012/12/06/unstoppably-rewatchable


BeornBerserker
Lorien

Dec 7 2012, 3:15pm

Post #60 of 73 (480 views)
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interesting coomentary on some reviews [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2012/dec/07/the-hobbit-fan-fights-back


Finrod
Rohan


Dec 7 2012, 3:44pm

Post #61 of 73 (428 views)
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Sequels to surpass original films? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To


The cited review says:
. . . if The Hobbit is anything to go by, the future of the Lord of the Rings brand is safe, and one’s memories of it will not be defiled in sequel One or Two. Just the opposite — it makes you wish director Peter Jackson would go back and remake the Ring films into works as dark, funny, and as visually spectacular as The Hobbit.
I wondered whether that might not happen, that the earlier films would not look as well done as their sequels. More money, more craft, maybe even more time, all contributing to the mismatch.

Well, it could be worse: consider the contrary propostion.

…all eyes looked upon the ring; for he held it now aloft, and the green jewels gleamed there that the Noldor had devised in Valinor. For this ring was like to twin serpents, whose eyes were emeralds, and their heads met beneath a crown of golden flowers, that the one upheld and the other devoured; that was the badge of Finarfin and his house.
The Silmarillion, pp 150-151
while Felagund laughs beneath the trees
in Valinor and comes no more
to this grey world of tears and war.
The Lays of Beleriand, p 311




(This post was edited by Finrod on Dec 7 2012, 3:47pm)


Gorgori
The Shire

Dec 7 2012, 4:01pm

Post #62 of 73 (366 views)
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My similar post of critics got locked, but what I think of critics.... [In reply to] Can't Post

is listed in this link.... (hope it works)


http://newboards.theonering.net/...;;page=unread#unread


BeornBerserker
Lorien

Dec 7 2012, 4:02pm

Post #63 of 73 (380 views)
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Same thing [In reply to] Can't Post

I wondered if these new movies might feel bigger than the LotR. The one positive is most reviewers feel the movies are tonally different and I think that will set them apart as different but both great movie sets.


Welsh hero
Gondor


Dec 7 2012, 4:03pm

Post #64 of 73 (413 views)
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71 on rt [In reply to] Can't Post

 

-Irfon

Twitter: @IrfonPennant
middle earth timeline FB: https://www.facebook.com/MiddleEarth1


Elenorflower
Gondor


Dec 7 2012, 6:28pm

Post #65 of 73 (321 views)
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I really dont understand [In reply to] Can't Post

peoples worrying about scores and critics and percentages from Rotten Tomatos and all the other stuff. WHO CARES if its got 70% or 2%. If YOU like the film, thats all that matters. whats the obsession with percentages anyway. its baffling. Just watch the dratted film and if its great its great, and if not well its only a film.
Crazy


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Dec 7 2012, 7:27pm

Post #66 of 73 (260 views)
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I'm "obsessing" over it because it's fun. [In reply to] Can't Post

And because i'm obsessing over The Hobbit, and until it premiers we don't have a whole lot to go on, so i'm watching all the talk show appearances, checking out every new behind-the-scenes clip, reading every review/interview, and following RT every few hours to see how it's doing. It's not a huge deal for me (how it does on RT that is), but it's fun to think about and talk about in the run up to the film's release.


WhiskFishercat
Bree


Dec 7 2012, 9:44pm

Post #67 of 73 (195 views)
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fun facts [In reply to] Can't Post

kinda neat to see those films, most i have seen and liked, to get those ratings on RT. Forrest Gump at 71% won best picture at the oscars. Just goes to show we cant judge a movie exactly just based on RT scores.

thanks for sharing that.


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Dec 8 2012, 12:10pm

Post #68 of 73 (142 views)
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Adapt or die. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Only objective reviews would ever be fair and that would be impossible. The other problem with RT is that unless you use the same critics each time for every film then the system becomes unfair as you are using different opinions each time you review. The big ions will obviously get more critical attention but smaller films will not. The larger sample size you take the more fair the result.

However, again it is subjective and the people reviewing them I feel are often trying to justify their jobs now in an industry that is becoming irrelevant. Reviews were helpful 20 years go before the advent of the Internet. But now, for example with this film, if I want the opinion on the Hobbit from people who love JRRT as much as me then I will come on here to see what people think of the film.

The opinions of reviewers mean little to me. The only thing it may sway is that of the ordinary non Middle Earth fan. But in all honesty, if you don't have an interest in fantasy then you probably wouldn't bother anyway.


Agree with your main point, but not this last sentence: I have no interest in fantasy whatsoever - as a genre, but was brought up on great literature - and that included Tolkien's books. They are potentially of interest to anyone who appreciates good English literature. If they also like film, they're going to be interested in any attempts to adapt the books.

The problem is that the price of all those costumes, sets and CGI is that the adapter is forced to make the films in a way that will appeal to people who never bothered to learn to read, let alone appreciate good writing. If the fans of the book also like it, that's just a bonus. Fortunately, the team adapting the text is concerned with the source literature and, being semi-independent, has some distance from Hollywood's drive towards the lowest common denominator. Unfortunately, however, many film critics are morons, who can't cope with any film that doesn't conform to the accepted formula. Given that Tolkien's work doesn't conform to the formula, any decent adaptation will inevitably get a fair degree of criticism.

The saving grace of Lord of the Rings, from a critics perspective, is that the story has an emotional depth and is deeply concerned with relationships between individuals. The Hobbit is written - at least in the earlier chapters that the first film deals with - as an adventure story and as far as relationships are concerned, most of the characters spend most of the book being cross with each other. The joy of the book for me, is the amount of grumbling, bickering and complaining; whether this is done well in the film, or appreciated by the audience remains to be seen.


Crunchable Birdses
Rohan


Dec 8 2012, 1:22pm

Post #69 of 73 (147 views)
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Forrest Gump [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the consensus is though, that Forrest Gump was wickedly overrated by the Oscars. I don't know many people that speak highly of that film.

* crunch *


WhiskFishercat
Bree


Dec 8 2012, 5:04pm

Post #70 of 73 (129 views)
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aww really? [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought Forrest Gump was a great filmed that totally deserved the Oscar. I don't think I have met one person who hasn't liked it. Its one of those movies that a lot of people remember. I don't remember what films were running against it that year but the movie has a great story, good acting, and touches the heart. But I think its cool you're not a fan of it (assuming), because that just goes to show the same way people/critics are reacting to the hobbit. :) Everyone has a different opinion.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Dec 8 2012, 7:18pm

Post #71 of 73 (131 views)
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Forrest Gump [In reply to] Can't Post

I really like Forrest Gump a lot, but i think it's critical appraisal has gone down in the years since it won those oscars. The impression i get is that people think it's kind of goofy, simple and overly-sentimental. But again, i really like it-- it's funny, touching, beautifully acted and brilliantly shot. It's a great film.


Escapist
Gondor


Dec 8 2012, 7:29pm

Post #72 of 73 (117 views)
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I think the critical reviews are part of the whole story of the making of ... [In reply to] Can't Post

which is probably interesting enough to be its own movie with very little embellishment. Cool


daemoon
Rivendell

Dec 9 2012, 10:01pm

Post #73 of 73 (134 views)
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A very positive review [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=71083

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