Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Northern Mine Barrage :
Hobbit film-makers ban journalist from covering premier
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All

Elenorflower
Gunner


Nov 23 2012, 12:38am

Post #76 of 98 (260 views)
Shortcut
Tim I fully agree with your statement [In reply to] Can't Post

about people making judgements from afar. Unsure You are right its very convenient.

I have seen a lot of judgements from afar generally on this thread, and its getting rather tiresome. Lifes difficult enough without someone telling you that your personal opinions are incorrect.


(This post was edited by Altaira on Nov 23 2012, 5:43am)


SirDennisC
First Mate


Nov 23 2012, 2:49am

Post #77 of 98 (260 views)
Shortcut
It's not a difference of opinion that is the problem here [In reply to] Can't Post

Please give me more credit than that.

Being told I over reacted, or worse called a smartarse, is what makes this a less friendly place than it ought to be. And yes, uninviting the journalist from that particular outlet, for this particular event, especially in light of all that the people of NZ have done in order for this thing to happen is easy to judge from afar because it is so clearly wrong. The other stuff, well it happened under PJ's watch as well. He must bear some responsibility, it comes with the territory; again near of far it's a no brainer.

I bothered to mention the things from the past at all (and I know I missed some things) in order to demonstrate that I wasn't reacting to one event in isolation. When you look at the big picture you do not have to be a smartarse (yes I'm looking at you again Elanorflower) to see that the production has a bad record on several important fronts.

If those things aren't important to everyone, that's fine with me. But they are important to me... my conscience has been troubling me far too long over this production. In fact, the only reason I have stuck around here is because I liked the people -- my interest in this thing officially died some time ago.

I admire PJ, the person, for what he's managed to accomplish, against all odds. And I have praised him, even in this thread, where I believe it is warranted. However since this is not just about him, and since when people state an opinion unfavourable toward the production they are treated as PJ haters, pariahs, or worse by some, well I see no point in hanging around any more.

One thing I refuse to tolerate is lip from newbies. Have a different opinion, fine. Just be respectful.

And to our many friends in NZ who are busy with party plans and such, I am truly glad for you that the magic, or whatever it is you are getting out of this, hasn't died. It has never been my intention to rain on your parade or to convince you that you shouldn't enjoy the films. Honestly, have a great time at the premiere, you've earned it.


Tim
Sailing Master


Nov 23 2012, 3:16am

Post #78 of 98 (215 views)
Shortcut
I'm not really sure what people expect on a public message board [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, name-calling isn't called for, but people are going to think you over-react sometimes and if you bother to post an opinion for public digestion, expect that from some. Comes with the territory. I don't really consider that unfriendly just a difference of perspective. There's always going to be folks coming at things from different angles, if you don't want to hear those angles well...

And no, uninviting the journalist was not easy to judge. There could have been actual valid reasons to ask for another person that are not revealed for public consumption, like security issues. The only perspective we had at that point was that of the journalist who was told to not come - hardly all sides of the equation. So you and I can agree to disagree on that. I hardly want to give one press member power to sway my opinion on a topic without knowing all the facts. And the press has a lot of power, so it's good to be skeptical of everything we read and hear from news outlets.

And with respect, bro, I think you're over-reacting. But you're entitled to do so and not haunt this board forevermore. But I have room for your opinion and I won't stop chatting with you and others. I always learn something even from people I disagree with, sometimes about humanity and sometimes about the topic. Even unpleasant discussions can be pleasant in their own weird way.

And by the way, this place is incredibly tame. Perhaps I think so because I spend some time on a Bioware board discussing Mass Effect with the gaming crowd and they have no problem whatsoever telling me exactly where I can take my opinion and shove it. The vitriol meter here is so low it's hardly a blip. But to each their own, if it's not pleasant here to you I totally understand finding other ways to enjoy your leisure hours.

-Tim came by. Tim! If you had heard only a quarter of what I have heard about him, and I have only heard very little of all there is to hear, you would be prepared for any sort of remarkable tale.


Starling
First Mate


Nov 23 2012, 3:18am

Post #79 of 98 (224 views)
Shortcut
Hey, Sir Dennis [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't want to advise you on what you should or shouldn't do, but don't forget there is always off-topic for friendly conversation about all manner of things. I would miss you very much if you were not around there.

I do find it very difficult when people make judgements about what is going on here in NZ, particularly recently in regard to this media accreditation story. I found the whole union issue very challenging too. I know it's not really wise to get into a lot of political stuff, but I will say that (in my opinion) we have a government with a career politician at the helm, desperate to cosy up to big business and power players. So desperate that they will actually change our laws. I am deeply uncomfortable about this.
This does not mean that I am out to destroy The Hobbit, or ruin it for everyone else. But I have every right to voice my views on what is happening in the country I live in. And I appreciate your willingness to look beyond the glitz, along with your interest in having a conversation about some of the other issues.

Go well, whatever you decide. Smile


Starling
First Mate


Nov 23 2012, 3:24am

Post #80 of 98 (218 views)
Shortcut
It wasn't only the perspective of the journalist that we had to go on [In reply to] Can't Post

Radio New Zealand immediately took a strong stance in support of her. The head of news made it very clear that they would not compromise their ethics to suit someone else.
I know this organisation. They are transparent and ethical. The problem did not lie with them.


JWPlatt
Boatswain


Nov 23 2012, 5:33am

Post #81 of 98 (215 views)
Shortcut
Barbarians At The Gate [In reply to] Can't Post

Two observations:

I've often noticed tempers and troubles flair just in time to mar The New Thing everyone has been waiting for so long without much incident when all they needed was five minutes more patience, like soccer fans crushed at the gate. It's only part of what I find quite unpleasant about the sustained feeding frenzy over every tidbit that ultimately spoils the experience. People look up and say a few things in agreement when they hear this, but forget or can't help themselves and go right back to doing what they were doing. So now the movie will be in theaters soon and people are feeling anxious.

For all the things that Peter Jackson has done to do the honorable or right thing, he remains elusive and silent about The Green Tint on the Fellowship of the Ring Extended Edition on Blu-ray. That issue is "important" to me. I can't fathom why it remains the only thing he is unwilling to honorably resolve.


Altaira
The Kraken / Moderator


Nov 23 2012, 5:58am

Post #82 of 98 (217 views)
Shortcut
Please remember that all opinions are welcome here [In reply to] Can't Post

... as long as people don't violate our Terms of Service, or the guidelines pinned at the top of this board. If anyone finds something getting tiresome, the best thing to do is move on.

Thanks


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Fardragon
Rigger

Nov 23 2012, 7:43am

Post #83 of 98 (185 views)
Shortcut
No [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm implying that some NZ-landers fear the power large foreign corporations have over their government.

When people are afraid, they can take drastic action, including resorting to terrorism.

A terrorist attack on Warner assets could be considered an attack on America.

An attack on American assets could lead to soldiers being sent in to protect them.

This almost exactly what happened in India in the 19th century. There is absolutely nothing to prevent it happening in the 21st.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Sunflower
Quartermaster

Nov 23 2012, 8:05am

Post #84 of 98 (189 views)
Shortcut
*A public service message*:) [In reply to] Can't Post

If the esteemed Sir Dennis indeed chooses to depart this forum, he may be found posting at the official website of one Guillermo Del Toro, where he and I also like to post (though he much more than I as of late, due to time constraints and other factors.) He use the same name there and I hope he does not change it. And Guillermo still likes to post there too.
www.deltorofilms.com

Sorry, SirD, had to throw that in there. And no, he did not ask me to add this...:)

As regards this debate, I bite my tongue. Carefully and painfully. Asking me to comment on this is like asking me to comment on the Middle East--one does not simply walk into Gaza. Evil


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Quartermaster


Nov 23 2012, 9:54am

Post #85 of 98 (156 views)
Shortcut
My flabber, she is gasted. *backs slowly away from thread*// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

**********************************


NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011


ElendilTheShort
Gunner


Nov 23 2012, 10:00am

Post #86 of 98 (170 views)
Shortcut
This became stupidly political here in NZ [In reply to] Can't Post

on one side are people opposed to this government as a matter of habit so they say that this deal has cost the tax payers money. My understanding is this is incorrect, the production was given a rebate so they paid less tax. If the production was not here then they would have paid NO tax and would not have spent a bunch of money here supporting our countries economy. I have never met anyone who fears the alleged non existant power of foreign corporates over our government. The people who make such claims tend to be those who in the ir next breath make racist claims about why it is wrong to let Chinese nationals buy our farms, which our PM pointed out is wrong to want to exclude anyone based on race alone.

Comparing modetn NZ to colonial India is ridiculous. I take your comment to mean that in some far fetched scenario USA troops could be dispatched to our soveteign nation to occupy it and protect WB assets. Not even in the realm of reality.


(This post was edited by ElendilTheShort on Nov 23 2012, 10:06am)


Fardragon
Rigger

Nov 23 2012, 3:57pm

Post #87 of 98 (139 views)
Shortcut
I'm not comparing it to COLONIAL india [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm comparing it to PRE-colonial India. The British East India Company was just a business. It was only ever interested in making a profit. There was never any evil plan to conquer India for Britain. It was simply a chain of events that spiralled out of control.

And I'm not saying I think it's likely to happen in NZ. I'm saying I can understand why some people in NZ fear it will happen.

I'm sure all the financial dealings work out to the benefit of NZ, but that's not the point. I would be extremely worried if a foreign business was seen to wield so much influence over the British government. Indeed, even the Americans are worried about the power of some Chinese businesses in America.

A lot of futurologists predict that the world will come to be ruled by corporations, and that national governments will simply become irrelevant. It doesn't matter if there is any truth in that or not. The important thing is many people BELIEVE it to be true.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...

(This post was edited by Fardragon on Nov 23 2012, 3:59pm)


Tim
Sailing Master


Nov 23 2012, 5:15pm

Post #88 of 98 (138 views)
Shortcut
That's an interesting thing to say [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It doesn't matter if there is any truth in that or not. The important thing is many people BELIEVE it to be true.


Since we're intelligent and capable of learning and discovering and communicating some truth, I'd think it does matter that we endeavor to discover this truth and find out if our fears are valid or not. The fact that some will not strive to do so does not mean we relegate finding the truth to being irrelevant and relegate spreading the truth as automatically pointless. So I submit the important thing is what actually IS true.

Looking at history, I'd say we have much more to fear from government than companies, since we as humans tend to submit to a single person in charge.

-Tim came by. Tim! If you had heard only a quarter of what I have heard about him, and I have only heard very little of all there is to hear, you would be prepared for any sort of remarkable tale.


totoro
Able Seaman

Nov 23 2012, 5:25pm

Post #89 of 98 (130 views)
Shortcut
Actually, the danger depends upon where the power lies [In reply to] Can't Post

The East India Trading Company was dangerous because it was a crown-granted monopoly. The company and government benefited at the expense of other countries. The East India Trading Company was an arm of a plutocratic government. If the government is a democracy, then the government is likely your friend. If the government is a plutocracy, then the government is likely not your friend. Don't throw every government into a blender and try to serve the concoction as a poison.

In Reply To
Looking at history, I'd say we have much more to fear from government than companies, since we as humans tend to submit to a single person in charge.



(This post was edited by totoro on Nov 23 2012, 5:26pm)


Elenorflower
Gunner


Nov 23 2012, 5:32pm

Post #90 of 98 (131 views)
Shortcut
sorry Sir Dennis for any misunderstanding. [In reply to] Can't Post

I did not call you a name. That comment was directed at someone else. I apologize if you thought that comment was directed at you. I have respect for you and enjoy reading your posts.


(This post was edited by Altaira on Nov 23 2012, 5:33pm)


Altaira
The Kraken / Moderator


Nov 23 2012, 5:35pm

Post #91 of 98 (144 views)
Shortcut
It doesn't matter who it was directed to [In reply to] Can't Post

Name-calling is not only against out Terms of Service, in this case it's a great example of how misunderstandings occur so easily on the internet. You insulted someone you didn't mean to insult and that person might leave the site in large part because of you. Your apology aside, what's done is done. Even though the Admins delete and edit things like this, you can't take them back. I wish more people would think about that *before* they feel the need to insult someone else. Mad


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





(This post was edited by Altaira on Nov 23 2012, 5:40pm)


Elenorflower
Gunner


Nov 23 2012, 5:41pm

Post #92 of 98 (110 views)
Shortcut
Fardragon [In reply to] Can't Post

 I can only assume you are having a laugh, otherwise its just too weird.


JWPlatt
Boatswain


Nov 23 2012, 5:46pm

Post #93 of 98 (113 views)
Shortcut
The Tragedy Of Truth [In reply to] Can't Post

Fardragon is perfectly correct in the quote. And single persons in charge tend to submit to special interests like companies.

For an object lesson on truth and perception, consider Romeo & Juliet. The truth doesn't help them now.


Elenorflower
Gunner


Nov 23 2012, 6:04pm

Post #94 of 98 (111 views)
Shortcut
if you say so [In reply to] Can't Post

I wont be surprised by Wingnut Stormtroopers with stompy jackboots then. San Fairy Ann!


JWPlatt
Boatswain


Nov 23 2012, 6:12pm

Post #95 of 98 (106 views)
Shortcut
Awareness [In reply to] Can't Post

Consider that discussions like these raise awareness and tend to prevent the things they discuss from happening via the caution of a collective conscience. It's a happy paradox that it can't be proven that it would have otherwise occurred.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Nov 23 2012, 6:13pm)


Tim
Sailing Master


Nov 23 2012, 6:22pm

Post #96 of 98 (99 views)
Shortcut
In most government in history... [In reply to] Can't Post

...the power has been given to a single person. We tend to migrate towards that. For example, the president in the U.S.A. now has more power than he did at the founding. Even then, he (Washington) was offered a crown, which thankfully he turned down. That was my point. There are good and evil points to government and types of government, since no human invention is perfect. Even democracies have their drawbacks, one being mob rule and oppression of the minority. The U.S. founders tried to mitigate that with their idea of a republic.

In the end, the government has the power of law and force at its back. It makes the rules. It can throw you in jail. It can tax you. It can press you into military service and even a caste system. It can legally kill you. That's why, in the balance, I tend to want to mitigate the power of government with the power of the individual. Companies have power, but history is littered with one king slaughtering many humans fighting another king, not McDonald's competing with Burger King.

-Tim came by. Tim! If you had heard only a quarter of what I have heard about him, and I have only heard very little of all there is to hear, you would be prepared for any sort of remarkable tale.

(This post was edited by Tim on Nov 23 2012, 6:28pm)


JWPlatt
Boatswain


Nov 23 2012, 6:38pm

Post #97 of 98 (94 views)
Shortcut
Companies And People [In reply to] Can't Post

You forget the issue of sweatshops and other such exploitation of people by companies. Apple, for example, is under fire for doing business with Foxconn, their supplier in China, where people have died.

As an aside, Foxconn employs such a massive number of people that statistics inevitably take over and so you get a representative sample of almost any human condition, like any city, including suicides and murder. But Apple and Foxconn are the companies involved where these things happen, so they are responsible and accountable. It doesn't help that governments and companies are in collusion to use these people.


Tim
Sailing Master


Nov 23 2012, 6:47pm

Post #98 of 98 (151 views)
Shortcut
No I haven't forgotten that [In reply to] Can't Post

Companies do have power and have hurt a lot of people. I am not anti-union. This is why I stated "in the balance". I still consider governments to be bigger threats to personal freedom and in the end more humans have had their freedom stripped and their lives taken by government. Yes, companies in collusion with government is a problem as well.

In the end, a government can break up a company and shut it down. Limit the power of government and limit the power of companies. Keep the markets as free as possible with fair regulation and give as much power to the individual as possible. Both governments and companies are necessary but an empowered citizenry is necessary to regulate both.

-Tim came by. Tim! If you had heard only a quarter of what I have heard about him, and I have only heard very little of all there is to hear, you would be prepared for any sort of remarkable tale.

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.