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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
New still shows off an unfriendly-looking warg
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starlesswinter
Lorien

Nov 10 2012, 12:18am

Post #76 of 91 (335 views)
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Really? We're at that level of criticism now? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not enough that it's clearly inspired by a real-world wolf - it has to have specific wolf proportions? What's the art department to do if not come up with new designs?


starlesswinter
Lorien

Nov 10 2012, 12:27am

Post #77 of 91 (336 views)
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I liked the hyenas too [In reply to] Can't Post

There are so many "evil wolf creatures" in fantasy movies that it was nice to have a change in design. Gmork in Neverending Story, the White Witch's wolves in Narnia, the wolf in Terry Gilliam's Brothers Grimm, now there's one in ABC's Once Upon a Time...I'm sure I'm forgetting others. Regardless of whether it's a fantasty convention, it's nice to have something different to look at. WETA's design was distinct. It was still canine - it's not like they made the wargs into giraffes. This is another one of the minor issues I think people fuss too much about.


imin
Valinor


Nov 10 2012, 12:32am

Post #78 of 91 (330 views)
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A hyena [In reply to] Can't Post

is not a canine, it is infact more closely related to a cat than a dog.

I think people fuss over it as it is a visual error on the design teams part in most peoples mind - even in PJ's. When you think of warg and get told they are pretty much a wolf, you dont think of a hyena you think of a wolf.

it was similar in that it ran on four legs and had fur, thats about it.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 10 2012, 4:09am

Post #79 of 91 (337 views)
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You haven't??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you been living under a rock? Dog-riding monkeys are about as common as old ladies carrying grocery bags.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 10 2012, 4:13am

Post #80 of 91 (340 views)
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People fuss [In reply to] Can't Post

Because they have strong opinions about these adaptations. As all of these things are subjective, there is no "too much fussing" or "too little fussing" about it.

People shouldn't be reprimand for expressing their opinions on art and entertainment.


starlesswinter
Lorien

Nov 10 2012, 5:45pm

Post #81 of 91 (311 views)
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But it still looks like a dog-like creature [In reply to] Can't Post

Hyenas may be more like a cat biologically, but TTT creatures were only inspired by them. The wargs certainly looked more canine than feline.


imin
Valinor


Nov 10 2012, 5:52pm

Post #82 of 91 (310 views)
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Looks like a hyena - its not a warg, all i can say. [In reply to] Can't Post

Though hyenas do look similar to dogs yeah.

Either way PJ regrets the design, loads of fans dont like the design and luckily for most, they have changed the design Smile

From what i have seen of the new design, personally i am very happy with the direction they have gone for wargs.


DanielLB
Immortal


Nov 10 2012, 6:13pm

Post #83 of 91 (294 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

I wasn't too bothered by TTT design. But TH Warg's are far superior. They look menacing and mean. Just what we need in these films.

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starlesswinter
Lorien

Nov 10 2012, 6:15pm

Post #84 of 91 (345 views)
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It's very extreme nitpicking, though, and for no good reason. [In reply to] Can't Post

In the vast world Tolkien created, and certainly with regard to what's actually important in these stories, the biological features of a warg are pretty low on the list. By all means argue whether the filmmakers destroyed the essence of fate's role in the destruction of the Ring or whether their use of the Army of the Dead as an unstoppable battle-ender was poor, but the fact that these design choices for a relatively unimportant creature have "strong opinions" speaks volumes about how fans go to see these film adaptations. I don't know about you, but I love Tolkien's world for its themes and atmosphere, not for the shape of a warg's eyes.

I take issue with this whole thing because people seem to dislike when someone else's visual interpretation doesn't match up with what they saw in their own heads. It just brings back memories of when everyone was upset because the Balrog had wings or Legolas had blonde hair. Why on earth does it matter? When people start discussing whether Thorin's cloak isn't the right shade of blue or whether the plains of Rohan are too brown, it just becomes a giant, emotionless bingo game and loses the essence of the story. From an audience perspective it does, at least, because none of these things are what LOTR is actually about. These characters/creatures aren't defined by tiny design features but by their actions and decisions. You can by all means not like a particular design itself, but to hate it and call it "horrible" just because it isn't exactly how the author describes? That's rather petty and pretty much dooms any chance of having an open mind about these things.

I'm not reprimanding people for having opinions about art - I'm taking issue with some of the reasons they express them, which I don't happen to think are very fair.


imin
Valinor


Nov 10 2012, 6:30pm

Post #85 of 91 (280 views)
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hmm, its an interesting question [In reply to] Can't Post

For me the wargs look bad themselves, irrespective of not looking like how Tolkien describes them - the design itself is bad i feel.

I totally get what you mean about not liking something just because it doesnt fit the book/ones own mental image. If anything its a failure of the success Tolkien's books have brought about. People connect with it so well and feel so strongly they have strong ideas about what things should be for nearly everything. Think of the balrog debate, it has been going on for years and will never end - does it matter? No, but people like sharing their own image and trying to prove they are right (just so you know im a no wings man).

I feel it is a curse almost of being a big fan. When watching the movie i dont actively go, 'well that looks different' or try and spot them, but as my mental image is so vivid from years of re-reading whenever it does change i cant help but notice it in some small way.

I think at this point in time 10 years after the lord of the rings - it has got to the point more of everyone on here (almost) agreeing they were very successful and are considered classics. It has come now into peoples mind how would they improve upon something.

It could be seen as praise for PJ that fans are having to get so ridiculously critical as more or less everything else was done great or good enough.

Personally i would see it as a positive that their isnt more major things to complain about. Also at this time before the release of the hobbit, we only have a small amount of footage to go off and so people are being very critical about that - once the movie starts people will just be enjoying it and proclaiming how PJ has done it again. After a period of 'omg the hobbit is aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamazzzzzzzzzing!' will come a period of analysing it - some will go deeper with their analyse than others.

Some its the general theme and feel of Tolkien that matters most (it does to me) for others it is in the little details that they get their enjoyment from seeing just as they pictured or described in the book.


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Nov 10 2012, 7:14pm

Post #86 of 91 (280 views)
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Well, let's hope so. ;) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
once the movie starts people will just be enjoying it and proclaiming how PJ has done it again. After a period of 'omg the hobbit is aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamazzzzzzzzzing!'



Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Nov 10 2012, 7:29pm

Post #87 of 91 (269 views)
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Its not extreme nitpicking [In reply to] Can't Post

For many, Middle Earth is essentially a Western-European flavored mythology, and having hyena-like beasts in it just doesn't seem to feel right. On the other hand, wolves, which appear prominently in a number of northern European myths and legends, seem to be much more appropriate.

For some, these aesthetic choices are just as important as the narrative choices.

That's not "extreme nitpicking," its legitimate, well-reasoned opinion.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Nov 10 2012, 7:29pm)


starlesswinter
Lorien

Nov 10 2012, 8:04pm

Post #88 of 91 (267 views)
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That doesn't work for all the mythology though [In reply to] Can't Post

If you use that criteria, it has to apply to the rest of the world as well. Where do the elephant-like Mumakil come from then? Why does Tolkien mention tomatoes and potatoes and tobacco when they came from the New World? Do dragons have to have the feature of lizards that existed in Europe? Gandalf has fireworks, yet they were invented in China.

It's fantasy - there's nothing wrong with anachronisms. It's part of the fun!


DarkJackal
Rohan


Nov 10 2012, 10:22pm

Post #89 of 91 (255 views)
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I didn't say I hated it [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it will work fine for a warg design actually. I'm just pointing out the difference between a real world wolf and this creation. Some people would prefer the wargs to be more wolf like than this, others don't care, and some would be bored with a big CGI wolf that looks like it came out of Twilight.

I think my preference would be just a bit more wolf-like, but it doesn't matter that much to me either way.

The Hobbit Photo Gallery


DarkJackal
Rohan


Nov 10 2012, 10:59pm

Post #90 of 91 (250 views)
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Get used to it [In reply to] Can't Post

These boards are full of people picking things apart. I'm a pretty detail oriented person, so part of what I find interesting about all these films are the little things, and why they chose to make them as they did. I point out the differences between this warg and a wolf because I want to understand them, not because I'm saying they are invalid choices for a fantasy creature. It may have come across that way, but that wasn't my intention.

"I take issue with this whole thing because people seem to dislike when someone else's visual interpretation doesn't match up with what they saw in their own heads."

As Shelob'sAppetite said, we all have a sense of aesthetics, which may play a greater or lesser part in our acceptance of the design of things. And to some, seeing wargs from the Hobbit onscreen for the first time is not "unimportant", whether or not it has anything to do with the overall themes of the story.

The Hobbit Photo Gallery

(This post was edited by DarkJackal on Nov 10 2012, 11:01pm)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Nov 13 2012, 1:10am

Post #91 of 91 (243 views)
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There. Now that makes sense! :) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



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