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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Sam Raimi directing The Hobbit

Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Nov 7 2007, 4:09am

Post #1 of 17 (597 views)
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Sam Raimi directing The Hobbit Can't Post

Given all recent info, I'm thinking this will actually happen. Albeit with the Jacksons' + Phillipa's script, Shore's score, WETA's effects and Howe's and Lee's designs.

Jackson has committed to producing the WW I film, to directing Tintin, and still has some work to do in The Lovely Bones.

New Line's posture has turned to "involve Peter creatively some way". Raimi has been sistematically rejecting several projects offered to him for the past months. I read somewhere (I lost the url, sorry! Crazy) that he was actually just waiting for The Hobbit matter to be settled to decide his future plans.

I say, after analyzing all this, and taking everything into consideration, that Jackson (meaning Jackson's team) executive producing and Raimi directing will not be all that bad. If you think about it, the real problem about not having Jackson was going to be the change in look and general feel to the movies. I do not see that happening if the creative team is still involved.

It worked for The Empire Strikes Back... and let's face it, Peter may have been the glue holding it all together, but it was the collective work that gave us Middle Earth. Maybe and just maybe keeping everything constant and adding Raimi could be positive.

Right now, I believe an announcement is imminent, but for some reason, I do not see the signs pointing towards Peter directing (I am not even sure he really wants to) yet, I do see the movie taking shape as a true complement to the existing trilogy. The difference? The man in the director's chair.

Let it be heard! We want Jackson for The Hobbit!


weaver
Half-elven

Nov 7 2007, 5:30am

Post #2 of 17 (595 views)
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Fran Walsh still gets my vote... [In reply to] Can't Post

You make a pretty compelling argument, though!

I can see where they would want a "name" director, but like the idea of Fran Walsh doing it because that would keep Jackson in the picture for continuity, but allow someone else with hands on experience with the Trilogy to bring a different style to the story.

I know she did some of the directing for the Trilogy -- the one scene that comes to mind is the opening Smeagol/Deagol sequence in ROTK. That scene includes both the comic and the tragic, and that's a lot of the tone of the Hobbit. I think she could really do well with the tale.

All IMHO, of course!

Weaver



JRandomRohirrim
Rohan


Nov 7 2007, 11:46am

Post #3 of 17 (305 views)
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I Could Live With This [In reply to] Can't Post

Though I'd appreciate a formal announcement some day!

I'd still rather see PJ do it, maybe Fran if she's interested. But keeping Weta involved in production design, costumes and effects is very important.

It's still not clear who's directing the first Tintin movie, but given that casting is starting to happen, and PJ still has lots of Lovely Bones shooting/post-production to do, it probably won't be him.


Hey, it looks like I may be able to kill the the boycottnewline.com domain in the not-too-distant future!


NoseOfSauron
Bree


Nov 7 2007, 2:13pm

Post #4 of 17 (329 views)
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Sir Ian Holmes [In reply to] Can't Post

At least I think that's his name... think they'll cast him as Bilbo again, and Ian McKellen as Gandalf again?

Looking from atop his great tower, he could see across the sea to the land of Middle-Earth. The sundering sea could not sunder his vision. From afar, he spoke with the mortals of the distant land. From across the sea, he stirred the fire of battle and kindled the candle of hope in the hearts of all who fought the shadow. From atop his great tower in Valinor, Manwe spoke the words to Cirdan...

"My name... is Gandalf the Grey."


SureCavanaugh
The Shire


Nov 7 2007, 3:33pm

Post #5 of 17 (313 views)
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No Holmes [In reply to] Can't Post

Sir Ian Holmes would be to old to play the younger Bilbo. It could happen, but it's highly doubtful, especially since in the original trilogy he refused to wear make up, and to age him they had to do it the old fashion way....and if he wouldn't wear make up there would be no way to make him look young.


JRandomRohirrim
Rohan


Nov 7 2007, 4:05pm

Post #6 of 17 (292 views)
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Sir Ian Holm... [In reply to] Can't Post

But...

If they do the two-part Hobbit we sometimes hear about, with "the missing years" stuff added at the end, he could show up in a cameo near the end.


Hey, it looks like I may be able to kill the the boycottnewline.com domain in the not-too-distant future!


SureCavanaugh
The Shire


Nov 7 2007, 4:16pm

Post #7 of 17 (286 views)
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Toché [In reply to] Can't Post

That is true, I had not thought of that.


Patty
Immortal


Nov 7 2007, 5:19pm

Post #8 of 17 (307 views)
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Yes. If we can't have PJ... [In reply to] Can't Post

I could accept Fran.

For Gondor!


BuckyUnderbelly
Lorien


Nov 7 2007, 8:13pm

Post #9 of 17 (289 views)
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The chances ... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think there's about a 60/40 chance that in the next couple of weeks they'll announce that Raimi will be directing with PJ & Co. producing/writing/designing/etc. (Though I'm not giving up hope on that 40% that would find PJ back in the director's chair!)

I've never been too keen on the Spider-Man movies. They're just okay in my book. A little too hokey. Though I am a fan of the Evil Dead series. However I think Raimi's best work, by far, has been on his more modest, non-fantasy movies The Gift and A Simple Plan. That said, though, I just don't think he's got it in him to really knock The Hobbit out of the park.

My personal choice, if PJ wasn't an option, would be Guillermo del Toro. I think he has an amazing ability to balance fantastical elements with darker ones. Just watch Pan's Labyrinth or Hellboy or Blade II if you have any doubts. Because that kind of deft balancing act is certainly going to be necessary to bring a respectable version of The Hobbit to the screen. (Plus PJ has been trying to work with del Toro for ages and ages.)

We hear a lot about how The Hobbit is more of a "children's book" and how it should be lighter in tone than the LOTR films. But remember, there are plenty of dark and violent elements in that book. Tolkien doesn't go into as much harrowing and gruesome detail as he does in the trilogy, but it's still there. There are giant deadly spiders, orcs, trolls, Gollum, a dragon that destroys an entire countryside ... and, lest we forget, a gigantic war at the end. It's pretty bloody and it's pretty violent.

The material cries out for a director who can handle a lighter tone without leaving the darker elements to feel cartoonish. If not PJ, then I'm hoping for del Toro. But Raimi seems like a bad fit.


Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Nov 7 2007, 9:28pm

Post #10 of 17 (270 views)
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A few things... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't like the Spiderman movies at all, but I guess that's about a series of factors, not directly traceable to Raimi himself. As I said previously, I think that the most important thing is the whole creative team. Sure, directing goes directly to performances, but Middle Earth will look and sound the same, the script will probably be written by the same team that wrote LotR... and I don't think Raimi isn't capable of getting out good performances from the actors.

Personally, I do think the movie(s) should be darker than the book, and rest assured, they will. Whoever does it will not try to do it Narnia-like, but LotR. There's a lot of material now that supports a darker Hobbit, and while it cannot be used openly, or directly for that matter, influences can be drawn from it to achieve a darker-toned film.

As for Del Toro, he has publicly stated that he does not like The Hobbit. Anyway, I wouldn't want him, he is character driven, but Pan's Labyrinth in terms of story was weak. Cuarón is better for telling stories... although I would rather some other type of director for The Hobbit. Nothing against my fellow mexican directors, it's just that I don't picture them pulling the Hobbit in the way I think the community is expecting.

Let it be heard! We want Jackson for The Hobbit!


BuckyUnderbelly
Lorien


Nov 7 2007, 10:37pm

Post #11 of 17 (263 views)
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Raimi ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Absolutely ... I agree 100%. The most important thing to do with a Hobbit movie would be to keep artistic continuity with the LotR trilogy. We need the same designers, the same effects house, the same composer, and of course the same screenwriters. But I don't think the director's job is quite so interchangeable. Even if everybody else came back in exactly the same jobs, swapping out PJ for Raimi I think would make a big difference.

I just don't think Raimi is the right man for the job. I don't doubt that he could get solid performances from the cast. (Hell, he actually managed to pull a flat-out great performance out of Keanu Reeves in The Gift! So that makes him a bonafide miracle-worker!) But the things I disliked most about the Spider-Man films were really Raimi-based issues ... particularly in regard to tone. I just find most of his work too ... goofy. Too cartoonish. And while that works great for the Evil Dead films, and some might argue that it's a good fit for Spider-Man ... I just don't see it working at all for The Hobbit. I worry that making things even a little goofier could ruin the whole thing.

One of the smartest decisions PJ & Co. made on LotR was to treat it as history. Not as fantasy. In treating it like a serious, period drama (one that just happened to have fantastical elements), they neatly avoided the clichees and pitfalls that often hamstring movies like Narnia or some of the weaker Harry Potter films. They managed to impart a sense of weight and gravity to the trilogy that really made the characters' struggles and sacrifices feel grounded and real.

But ... even in PJ's trilogy, there were moments of "comic relief" that I found too silly. Don't get me wrong, these are my favorite films of all time. Nothing else comes close. But I don't think some of the lighter, sillier moments work very well. I'm not crazy about some of the scenes with Merry and Pippin and, sadly, many scenes involving Gimli -- one of my favorite characters from the books -- left me groaning. (Specifically the scenes that strip this stout but mighty warrior of a fair amount of his dignity in order to grab cheap laughs from burping, farting or dwarf-tossing references.)

I just worry that, with Raimi at the helm, we might see a lot more of this kind of thing. We might end up getting the Sam Raimi who created the horribly cheesy Hercules and Xena TV shows. And not a more mature Sam Raimi embarking on a new phase of his career. But maybe -- hopefully -- I'm just an alarmist.

Personally, I would LOVE it if The Hobbit movie was a lot darker than the book. I really think it ought to match the tone of the trilogy. But I understand that's just my particular cinematic taste. I also understand that fans of the book might find that upsetting. You could make the argument either way. But remember, even Prof. Tolkien himself said he wished he could have gone back and reworked The Hobbit after completing LotR. Yes, it was originally intended to be a children's story ... but Middle Earth grew considerably darker and more mature as time went on.

We shall keep our fingers crossed!


Elizabeth
Valinor


Nov 7 2007, 10:52pm

Post #12 of 17 (271 views)
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Fairy tales are often violent. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
We hear a lot about how The Hobbit is more of a "children's book" and how it should be lighter in tone than the LOTR films. But remember, there are plenty of dark and violent elements in that book. Tolkien doesn't go into as much harrowing and gruesome detail as he does in the trilogy, but it's still there. There are giant deadly spiders, orcs, trolls, Gollum, a dragon that destroys an entire countryside ... and, lest we forget, a gigantic war at the end. It's pretty bloody and it's pretty violent.


Tales of beheadings, violence to (and even by) children abound. But it's quite different to hear or read a violent tale vs. seeing the actual violence on the big screen. The entire tone of The Hobbit deliberately distances the reader from the real terrors; to see them visually, especially filmed in a way that emphasizes the terror, would be quite a departure from Tolkien's style and approach.


Quote
The material cries out for a director who can handle a lighter tone without leaving the darker elements to feel cartoonish.


Agreed, it's a delicate balance.




Son of Elizabeth in Frodo's tree
March, 2007


Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'


Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Nov 8 2007, 1:15am

Post #13 of 17 (258 views)
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You said it... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I just don't think Raimi is the right man for the job. I don't doubt that he could get solid performances from the cast. (Hell, he actually managed to pull a flat-out great performance out of Keanu Reeves in The Gift! So that makes him a bonafide miracle-worker!) But the things I disliked most about the Spider-Man films were really Raimi-based issues ... particularly in regard to tone. I just find most of his work too ... goofy. Too cartoonish. And while that works great for the Evil Dead films, and some might argue that it's a good fit for Spider-Man ... I just don't see it working at all for The Hobbit. I worry that making things even a little goofier could ruin the whole thing.

One of the smartest decisions PJ & Co. made on LotR was to treat it as history. Not as fantasy. In treating it like a serious, period drama (one that just happened to have fantastical elements), they neatly avoided the clichees and pitfalls that often hamstring movies like Narnia or some of the weaker Harry Potter films. They managed to impart a sense of weight and gravity to the trilogy that really made the characters' struggles and sacrifices feel grounded and real.



I feel exactly the same way about these two statements. They treated LotR with the historical rigor Tolkien did, and the result is there. I am worried about the cartoony thing you say, but well, I think I'm trying to be positive, given the panorama.

All in all, you put it well... Let's hope for a PJ directed film, darker than the Hobbit. If not... here's to hoping for Raimi's opera magna.

Let it be heard! We want Jackson for The Hobbit!


NoctemArcanus
The Shire


Nov 8 2007, 3:47am

Post #14 of 17 (255 views)
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Hope [In reply to] Can't Post

I am really hoping for this! I wan't the Hobbit movie soooooo bad.

I will not say "do not weep" for not all tears are an evil.


ChrisCR
The Shire


Nov 8 2007, 9:48am

Post #15 of 17 (279 views)
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Looks bad.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello!!!

I spoke to one of PJs close friends and he is also friends with New Line.

He told me NO HOBBIT for PJ. For now that is..PJ says "I got all items,Armours,CGI and all" New Line can make their version, Then after 5 years when they lose the rights, I will buy the rights and make my own version.

And New Line said in this matter: If PJ came and gave us all the money back,Made the movie for free, I still rather die before I get him involved in it.

That is how hard it still is between them and the latest coments from them. So sad what money does to people.

Chris
www.cinemareplicas.com


Loresilme
Valinor


Nov 9 2007, 1:06am

Post #16 of 17 (205 views)
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Yes, sometimes I have difficulty [In reply to] Can't Post

even reading them to my daughter. I will get halfway through a story and be thinking, "And then he did what??" Sometimes I just change the events or the ending.

Once she learns to read though, that won't work anymore!


Kdgard
Bree

Nov 10 2007, 7:41am

Post #17 of 17 (234 views)
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A possible silver lining [In reply to] Can't Post

First and foremost, I still definitely want PJ to direct The Hobbit movie! Should Raimi end up directing? Well, everyone is concerned that the look of the film would be too different if it wasn't shot in New Zealand and WETA wasn't involved. The silver lining could be the fact that Raimi shot both the Hercules and Xena TV shows over in New Zealand, and none other that Richard Taylor actually did some of the creature effects. Some have posted that they thought Hercules was cheesy or hokey or something along that line. Personally, I loved the show. I thought it was just good, clean, light-hearted fun. The point, though, is that Raimi does at least have connections to New Zealand and to WETA so maybe the movie wouldn't necessarily be so different from LOTR, at least visually---especially if PJ at least ends up producing the movie.

As far as tone goes, you're right, I don't know what to expect. I agree that Raimi likes to lean towards the "goofy" side of things. I like the Spiderman movies. If you didn't, that's okay, but the Spiderman movies were bringing in hundreds of millions of dollars at the boxoffice just like LOTR, so he must have been doing something right! Also, it wouldn't surprise me if the "powers that be" probably keep a close eye on sites like TORN to see what the fans are saying. It's obvious how important this movie is to fans and I don't think Raimi, if put in the director's chair, will want to be known as the guy who really screwed up that Hobbit movie!

And, if there are any spies for Raimi or New Line or Jackson reading this right now....

I WANT PETER JACKSON TO DIRECT THE HOBBIT MOVIE!!!! Do it right or don't do it at all!!

Kdgard

 
 

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