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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
Sauron/Palantir question

aruman
Rivendell


Oct 15 2012, 12:45am

Post #1 of 8 (641 views)
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Sauron/Palantir question Can't Post

I just noticed that when Aragorn reveals himself to Sauron in the Palantir we see Sauron in the same form as he was at the Battle of the Last Alliance, holding up a Palantir. Does this mean that that is what he looked like at that point? I know Saruman said his spirit cannot yet take physical shape, but that was near the beginning of the series.

In the movies Elrond, Denethor, Haldir, Galadriel, and Celeborn stink.


Ring-Bearer
Rivendell


Oct 15 2012, 3:39am

Post #2 of 8 (378 views)
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This is how he looked during the battle, but [In reply to] Can't Post

It could be that although Sauron has not retaken his physical form, he is demonstrating to Aragorn his sheer power and what he could become. The battle that you are referring to is the battle of Dol Gildur (correct if I am wrong), right before Sauron lost his connection to the Ring and therefore his connection to his physical form. At the time that he reveals himself to Aragorn, he has not been reunited with the ring and therefore has no physical shape, so the image we see in the Palantir must be a flashback to how he looked at the battle or foreshadowing Sauron's intentions.

'What are we holding on to, Sam?'
'There's good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for!'


'I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you!'


Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien

Oct 15 2012, 6:04pm

Post #3 of 8 (306 views)
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I'll correct you, cause you're wrong...;) [In reply to] Can't Post

that's not the Battle of Dol Guldur, but the Battle of the Last Alliance.
And there is no evidence for your account on Sauron needing the ring to be able to take physical form, not in the movie and definitely not in the book.

''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''

(This post was edited by Ereinion Nénharma on Oct 15 2012, 6:04pm)


Longbottom Leaf
Rivendell


Oct 16 2012, 3:26am

Post #4 of 8 (253 views)
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I don't think so... [In reply to] Can't Post

I would imagine that Sauron was using the palantir to create fear in Aragorn by showing him what he(Sauron) could become. The same way that Pippin saw Minas Tirith in flames in the palantir. That was not the present when he saw it but a vision of what was to come. So who really knows but I would guess that Sauron did not yet have that form.

The best weed in the southfarthing!


aruman
Rivendell


Oct 16 2012, 8:09am

Post #5 of 8 (231 views)
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A perfectly plausible explanation [In reply to] Can't Post

...and that might be exactly what was going on...the thing that's making me unsure is the fact that the vision of Sauron that was revealed to Aragorn was actually holding a palantir.

In the movies Elrond, Denethor, Haldir, Galadriel, and Celeborn stink.


Pete_R
Registered User


Oct 18 2012, 3:49am

Post #6 of 8 (198 views)
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Sauron's physical state [In reply to] Can't Post

The way I remember (without looking it up) is that Sauron could no longer take a "fair form," but he still was most likely capable of taking some kind of shape, visible or not (like the Nazgul). I also got the impression from the books that the Eye of Sauron was just a tool, not Sauron himself, as so many people seem to think.

I liked the palantir scene in the EE where Sauron flinched upon seeing Anduril, and I like to believe that no matter what his physical state was, he could still wear a robe and crown, as the nazgul were able to.
At least, I liked the scene until Sauron showed Aragorn the vision of Arwen dead or dying, and he went all emotional. :-)


aruman
Rivendell


Oct 20 2012, 6:57pm

Post #7 of 8 (210 views)
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Um...AGREED?! [In reply to] Can't Post

I felt the same way...scene was handled well up until the vision of Arwen. In direct conflict with one of my fav parts of the book, in which:

Aragorn "wrenched the stone to his own will, which Sauron would find hard to endure," and "learned many things" about the enemy's plans.

In the movies Elrond, Denethor, Haldir, Galadriel, and Celeborn stink.


flameofudun
Lorien

Nov 8 2012, 3:23am

Post #8 of 8 (194 views)
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Sauron and his forms [In reply to] Can't Post

IT is my opinion that sauron would be able to obtain physical form again after a while, much like he did at dol guldur, but if he were to aquire the ring he would immediatley be able to maintain a physical form. For instance, in the hobbit movie we are going to see sauron as the necromancer, and in physical form but the white council drives him out and into spirit form again.

 
 

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