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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The use of maps in The Hobbit

Danielos
Rohan

Oct 10 2012, 4:14pm

Post #1 of 21 (1355 views)
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The use of maps in The Hobbit Can't Post

When reading Tolkien books (especially Silmarillion), you have to use the included maps a lot to keep up with what´s going on. I was surprised that the LOTR-movies used maps so rarely. Sure, maps with a red line signifying the travelling company a ´la Indiana Jones is cliché, but it must surely help the casual audience to understand the locations and geography better.

I hope the Hobbit movies will use maps better and more frequently. There must be several creative ways (for example when Faramir used a map in TTT) to include this without interrupting the narrative flow and make the book veterans cringe.


Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Oct 10 2012, 4:24pm

Post #2 of 21 (613 views)
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I think it's likely [In reply to] Can't Post

I think we will see Thorin's map in detail at least twice (once initially when discussing the journey in Bag End and a second time when Elrond finds the moon-letters).

Hopefully they'll use it as an opportunity to orient the audience to the geography of northern Wilderland. Judging from the amount that they use the 3D map in the trailers and promoted it at SDCC, I'm going to be optimistic and trust we'll get plenty of map-time in AUJ Smile

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 10 2012, 4:40pm

Post #3 of 21 (555 views)
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I don't see why they need to show a map every couple of scenes? [In reply to] Can't Post

Think about all the other fantasy films (or any film for that matter) which involves large distances. I can think of very, very few that show maps.

And The Quest of Erebor is fairly straightforward. They head east and then north. That's easy to follow. Tongue

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Danielos
Rohan

Oct 10 2012, 4:49pm

Post #4 of 21 (518 views)
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"Willow" could have benefitted of maps as well! [In reply to] Can't Post

Just because other fantasy movies don´t doesn´t mean they shouldn´t. The geography of Middle Earth is complex. I want the non-book readers to get a grasp of the scale of it and the distance of locations to each other.

For example, I think many people watching ROTK came away with the erroneous assumption that Mordor was about the size of a city. A better use of maps could have conveyed the huge size of Mordor.


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 10 2012, 4:52pm

Post #5 of 21 (499 views)
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Which could also be achieved by making the films more accurate ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

The distance between Barad-dur and Mount Doom changed within the films, and Mordor seemed too close to Minas Tirith for my liking!

I think maps are good for visual aid, but other than that, people aren't going to take much notice in a film.

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TheHutt
Gondor


Oct 10 2012, 4:52pm

Post #6 of 21 (517 views)
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There were plenty o' maps in LOTR... [In reply to] Can't Post

Why... we get a map in the FOTR prologue, in the FOTR SEE pre-title sequence, in FOTR in Bag-End (Thorin's map) in TTT (by Faramir) and in the finale of ROTK. That's quite extensive, actually.

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DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 10 2012, 4:55pm

Post #7 of 21 (496 views)
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And as part of the EE DVD cases! (The ones I have anyway) / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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(This post was edited by DanielLB on Oct 10 2012, 4:55pm)


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Oct 10 2012, 5:25pm

Post #8 of 21 (497 views)
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Geography is not vital information for the most part. [In reply to] Can't Post

General audience doesn't need to know exact whereabouts on the map of a location to understand the movie, in most cases.


Danielos
Rohan

Oct 10 2012, 5:34pm

Post #9 of 21 (469 views)
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Map in book [In reply to] Can't Post

By that logic, we wouldn´t need a map in the book either.


revecus
The Shire


Oct 10 2012, 5:40pm

Post #10 of 21 (441 views)
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True, for the general audience [In reply to] Can't Post

a map is not needed, but for the die-hard fans as ourselves, I think it would be a treat to see the maps being used in a creative way.

Pippin: I didn't think it would end this way.
Gandalf: End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path... One that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass... And then you see it.
Pippin: What? Gandalf?... See what?
Gandalf: White shores... and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.
Pippin: [smiling] Well, that isn't so bad.
Gandalf: [softly] No... No it isn't.


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Oct 10 2012, 5:42pm

Post #11 of 21 (454 views)
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No we wouldn't. [In reply to] Can't Post

But they are there for people that wanna know that stuff. With a book, you can set it aside and check the map, inserting multiple map shots in a movie to explain whereabouts is rather clumsy.


(This post was edited by Estel78 on Oct 10 2012, 5:43pm)


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Oct 10 2012, 5:55pm

Post #12 of 21 (420 views)
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to be fair [In reply to] Can't Post

Faramir's map was a very very very late addition (it wasn't even filmed with actors, just the fx guys) because the suits were worried people would be confused at where who and what was going on.

PJ and Co are pretty great at clarifying geography and cultures and people in the LOTR trilogy, but I do like maps, so let's have em!

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Oct 10 2012, 5:57pm

Post #13 of 21 (437 views)
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that's because [In reply to] Can't Post

Mordor is boring and dreary. Let's just get to the Volcano and the strawberry talk! Angelic

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


Eye's on Guard
Lorien


Oct 10 2012, 6:31pm

Post #14 of 21 (387 views)
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I'm one to look at the map... [In reply to] Can't Post

...every time any geography is mentioned in The Hobbit or any book for that matter. I'm already familiar with it and it slows down the reading, but I just like to be oriented that way.

However, I think the casual audience won't care as much and since we know the geography already, it's not that crucial. Agreed it would be a nice touch though and helps with realism.


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 10 2012, 6:52pm

Post #15 of 21 (375 views)
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The majority of people are there to watch and enjoy the film [In reply to] Can't Post

They don't really care about the intricacies. Wink

A nice touch, but not necessary.

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Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Oct 10 2012, 6:52pm

Post #16 of 21 (369 views)
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A biased map lover here [In reply to] Can't Post

says yes to more maps, but to be honest, the geography of TH is much simpler than that of LotR and especially Silm. People will understand what's going on well without the maps. So they're not vital, but a nice plus. M-E maps are pretty!

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Eye's on Guard
Lorien


Oct 10 2012, 7:28pm

Post #17 of 21 (309 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

I tried to say that but was a bit cryptic about it Evil


Elenorflower
Gondor


Oct 10 2012, 8:29pm

Post #18 of 21 (275 views)
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It may help [In reply to] Can't Post

with orientation, if they show places we saw in Fellowship for the first film. just to get a feel of direction and journey. If we saw them passing barrow Downs or Weathertop, and Bree, we will realize more or less where we are. then Trollshaws and after if they film the Ford where Arwen fought the black Riders, we would know we are near Rivendell. these would be visual clues instead of a cut to a map which can be a bit unweildy Then of course in Rivendell we could get the Moon map in more detail, showing Mirkwood and the Lonely Mountains, which direction they are and the distances in days.


The Grey Wanderer
Lorien


Oct 10 2012, 11:57pm

Post #19 of 21 (204 views)
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Also agreed, even though I am a map lover! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Phibbus
Rohan


Oct 11 2012, 12:38am

Post #20 of 21 (232 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

Given the number of maps in the recent list of merchandise being released by Weta Workshps, I'd imagine we'll be seeing some in the film.

It was interesting to note the Shire map matching the description of Bilbo's of the "Country Round" with his favorite walks marked in red, and I'm guessing we'll at least see it incidentally hanging on his wall. (Was it seen in LotR?)

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


Aunt Dora Baggins
Half-elven


Oct 11 2012, 4:03pm

Post #21 of 21 (140 views)
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When I dream about Middle Earth [In reply to] Can't Post

the landscape is almost always superimposed on the map. I don't know why,but it does tell me how important the map is to me in visualizing the story.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


 
 

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