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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Do you reckon PJ will use the dragon firework released by Pippen and Merry . . .

elf_wannabee
Lorien

Oct 4 2012, 3:55am

Post #1 of 15 (1360 views)
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Do you reckon PJ will use the dragon firework released by Pippen and Merry . . . Can't Post

at Bilbo's expected party for his eleventy-first birthday as a model [or at least a foreshadowing of ] for Smaug? or is Smaug going to be more magnificent? Golden red is the color i think it should be!


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 4 2012, 7:01am

Post #2 of 15 (465 views)
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The firework was great, as a firework [In reply to] Can't Post

But Smaug needs to be more spectacular. Bigger (in every way), and more fearsome!

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Elizabeth
Valinor


Oct 4 2012, 7:52am

Post #3 of 15 (444 views)
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Why on earth should he? [In reply to] Can't Post

Honestly, that would show a serious lack of imagination! TH should be its own thing, not recycle characters, designs, memes, and concepts from LotR beyond what is necessary to tell TH's story in the same Middle Earth. This kind of recycling is why sequels and prequels so often fail both at the box office and artistically!






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Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'

(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Oct 4 2012, 7:53am)


FarFromHome
Valinor


Oct 4 2012, 8:20am

Post #4 of 15 (406 views)
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Do you mean [In reply to] Can't Post

the dragon-shaped firework itself, or the way it looks in the sky? I've never thought the two designs looked much like each other. And I recall from the EE extras that the original design for the exploding dragon firework was drastically simplified to that it would actually look like a firework, and not like a real dragon!

On the other hand, if the look of Smaug includes a nod to the designs in this scene, I think that would be fun. After all, when Gandalf made that firework in Bilbo's honour, he was obviously thinking specifically of Bilbo's adventure with Smaug, so he'd probably try to give it a certain Smauginess (if you'll pardon the expression Tongue).

They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings



Loresilme
Valinor


Oct 4 2012, 2:03pm

Post #5 of 15 (394 views)
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That makes sense [In reply to] Can't Post

That's an interesting suggestion! It would tie in with the fact that Gandalf most likely made or brought the fireworks specifically for Bilbo's party, and if that particular one was meant as the grand finale (before Pippin & Merry grabbed it) it might certainly have been designed to resemble the dragon of Bilbo's grand adventure.

Now that you mention it, I hope they do that. At least, have it resemble that dragon, maybe from afar or from a particular angle!


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Oct 4 2012, 6:58pm

Post #6 of 15 (375 views)
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WAIT [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf never saw Smaug, as far as we know.

right?

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 4 2012, 7:22pm

Post #7 of 15 (352 views)
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He probably just knew based on very good descriptions [In reply to] Can't Post

Or he was in Laketown when the dragon attacked. Shocked

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There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Oct 4 2012, 7:29pm

Post #8 of 15 (354 views)
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whoa DLB [In reply to] Can't Post

where was Gandalf between Dol Guldur and when he pops up in the camp with Thranduril and Bard?

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


Lightice
Lorien

Oct 4 2012, 7:32pm

Post #9 of 15 (330 views)
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Doesn't matter [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Gandalf never saw Smaug, as far as we know.

right?


Doesn't matter. He had plenty of descriptions, as well as most likely lots of drawings and the like. And considering his age, he may well have seen other dragons in his day, as well.


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 4 2012, 7:35pm

Post #10 of 15 (332 views)
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Exactly! [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps he gets to Laketown in time to help along with the battle. Then he travels with them to Erebor.

(I'm joking of course ...) Wink

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There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Oct 4 2012, 7:52pm

Post #11 of 15 (317 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

and because I really doubt Gandalf needed to make an exact representation of Smaug to a group of hobbits who never saw nor will see a dragon (other than the Green Dragon Wink) in their lifetime.

just a bit of mischief from a crafty old wizard.

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


Ring-Bearer
Rivendell


Oct 5 2012, 2:58am

Post #12 of 15 (214 views)
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Maybe [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps Smaug will be very loosely based on the firework, alluding to the fact that Bilbo knew a bit about dragons when Frodo was helping him run away from it during his party.

'What are we holding on to, Sam?'
'There's good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for!'


'I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you!'


Fardragon
Rohan

Oct 5 2012, 7:12am

Post #13 of 15 (248 views)
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Travelling in haste from Dol Guldur to the Lonely Mountain presumably [In reply to] Can't Post

One can hypothesise that he went on foot to Thranduil's palace, arriving shortly after Thranduil has set out to aid the people of Lake Town. He then borrows a horse and rushes to catch up, his foresight warning him of the impending conflicts.

In the movie, we may have a force of orcs and warg riders, led by zorc-Azog, heading the the same way, which Gandalf will have to race to arrive ahead of.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 5 2012, 3:36pm

Post #14 of 15 (192 views)
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I don't think so, Thror's map dragon is more likely to look like him. [In reply to] Can't Post

Even if we don't know the exact design of Smaug, he will have four fangs, a long serpentish body and since we know Cunberbatch played him with motion capture on his face, he will be more expressive than firework dragon. They will just look a bit alike because they are dragons, but I don't see anything more. A best indication of smaug's design would probably be Thror's map, at least we know it represents Smaug : http://www-images.theonering.org/...orin-map-display.jpg


(This post was edited by Ffnir on Oct 5 2012, 3:41pm)


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Oct 5 2012, 5:53pm

Post #15 of 15 (414 views)
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Dragon-ness. [In reply to] Can't Post

I would hope for something beautiful and dangerous - not spectacular in the normally used sense of the word. For the main character, and the audience, it is the embodiment of a legend come to life - so it needs to combine the familiar folk notions of what a dragon is (as in the firework's representation), with the strange and terrifying reality of what a dragon actually is. I would think it will be the biggest design challenge for the film makers, for this reason.

 
 

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