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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
New informations about the ending of movie one *Spoiler*
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Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 30 2012, 2:46pm

Post #101 of 112 (650 views)
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Who knows? [In reply to] Can't Post

That's rather my point. Just because no one guessed Osgiliath a year out doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Could be Bilbo and Smaug, could be an escape from Smaug, could be Bilbo completing his burglary, could be the battle at Dol Guldur, could be Azog confronting Thrain on the doorstep, could be the destruction of Lake Town, could be the beginnings of dragon sickness in Thorin, who can say. Could be Smaug's death.

Us not knowing a thing does not mean a thing cannot be.

LR


Phibbus
Rohan


Sep 30 2012, 2:53pm

Post #102 of 112 (675 views)
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Indeed [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
So what is the climax for film 2?

I confess I still can't see one.

An entire film based just on the aftermath of Smaug's death has seemed to me a questionable formula. Despite their importance to the shape of the story's arc, the Bo5A events still comprise an extended denouement, one which, to me, will suffer without foergoing context and climax. Additionally, there is the sharp change in narrative tone which occurs after Smaug's death. If the movies seek to retain this change at all, my feeling has been that it will come more as disjunction than transformation if it occurs between two films rather than as a natural development of one.

However, if Smaug does not meet his end in film two, I don't see a logical stopping point for events that might be portrayed therein.

The only way out that I can see is to use elements from the external Dol Guldur plotline and other introduced material for the required beats.

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


Lightice
Lorien

Sep 30 2012, 4:10pm

Post #103 of 112 (633 views)
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... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The second point is that the second film needs a climax and the only possible solution is Smaug's death. Tend not to agree that this is the only option and might well point out how many folks argued that Shelob must be in TTT for the very same reasons.



The Two Towers had an obvious climax in the victory of Helm's Deep. It was understandable that PJ didn't want a secondary climax with Shelob muddling things up. This also supports the unlikelihood that he would want the twin climaxes of Smaug's demise and the Battle of the Five Armies in the same movie, now that there are three.


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It would be almost impossible for our company to reach Smaug less than an hour into the second film and then we begin to chop off his time at the opposite end as well?



The epilogue doesn't have to last more than ten minutes. It's not a big deal. The movie can be anything up to three hours and thirty minutes long, considering PJ's track record. That's plenty of time for everything important.


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Too much risk of waning interest by the casual punter, or so seems the risk to me.



At that point The Hobbit is already a phenomenon like the LotR was, It doesn't need much more pull than the fact that it's The Hobbit.


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Us not knowing a thing does not mean a thing cannot be.



What we do know is that it has to be climactic and satisfying for the audience, not a mere cliffhanger. The only thing that could remotely contest its place would be Dol Guldur, but as I've said before, I can't see it as a standalone plot without a close tie-in to the affairs at the Mountain. Furthemore, I can't see the most significant events taking place anywhere outside the titular Desolation.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 30 2012, 4:17pm

Post #104 of 112 (676 views)
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*Scratches head* [In reply to] Can't Post

Jackson et al. have been been quite clear that they devised the Osgiliath episode in order to create a climax not to avoid one. The quotes on this are multiple and freely available.

I think a three and a half hour middle film is unlikely.

LR


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 30 2012, 4:29pm

Post #105 of 112 (630 views)
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I never really thought of it as a climax [In reply to] Can't Post

More of a filler scene/s, to get Frodo, Sam and Gollum from Faramir's Company to Ithilien. I don't see it as a climax, not a major one anyway. A small sub-plot climax?

Will certainly be interesting to see what the main climax of TDOS will be.

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 30 2012, 4:49pm

Post #106 of 112 (608 views)
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Introducing a brand new character (Beorn) at the end of a film [In reply to] Can't Post

Does not seem to make much sense to me.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 30 2012, 5:58pm

Post #107 of 112 (605 views)
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The climax of DoS [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
So what is the climax for film 2?



If the climax of The Desolation of Smaug is not the demise of the dragon then I guess it would be the White Council's assault on Dol Guldur, which may be a bigger event than some book fans hope for or anticipate. It might be a bit on the anti-climactic side; the fall of the fortress shouldn't be decisive since it is supposed to endure until the War of the Ring. The Necromancer should escape, although the Council is convinced that he suffers a significant defeat. Some book-fans dispute that there was even a battle that was large enough to deserve the name. On the other hand, Peter Jackson could conjure up an epic fight that results in Lady Galadriel razing the walls of Dol Guldur and exposing its pits to the light of day.

'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White


Lightice
Lorien

Sep 30 2012, 10:05pm

Post #108 of 112 (566 views)
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Again, see the LotR for examples. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Does not seem to make much sense to me.


They introduced Galadriel near the end of the Fellowship of the Ring for the exact same purpose as Beorn would be: to provide a safe haven and advice before the oncoming challenges.


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If the climax of The Desolation of Smaug is not the demise of the dragon then I guess it would be the White Council's assault on Dol Guldur, which may be a bigger event than some book fans hope for or anticipate.



While not impossible, I don't consider this likely. It's simply too detached from the rest of the events to stand on its own as a climax. It would be like taking the last march of the Ents from the Two Towers, but leaving out the siege of Helm's Deep. I very much see it as an "Ent-moment"; important and climactic, but ultimately supporting to another climax with more human interest.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 30 2012, 10:26pm

Post #109 of 112 (599 views)
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Indeed Lightice [In reply to] Can't Post

''They introduced Galadriel near the end of the Fellowship of the Ring for the exact same purpose as Beorn would be: to provide a safe haven and advice before the oncoming challenges''.

..Lions and Tigers and Beorns, oh my!..Cool


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Sep 30 2012, 10:27pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2012, 11:42pm

Post #110 of 112 (550 views)
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I like it... [In reply to] Can't Post

but I'm torn between Smaug's role not starting until the beginning of film 3 and your idea which I believe very likely.

I think if they leave Smaug to be discovered in the beginning of film 3, The film will start with some sort of flashback scene of Smaug destroying Dale and taking Erobor as his home via a Thorin dream sequence. Or like you said they will have Bilbo meet Smaug and their encounter will play itself out and Smaug will fly out at the end of film 2. Film 3 will pick up maybe with the dwarves inside the tunnel, just inside the door then cutting to the Dol Guldur subplot for a while, then coming back to Laketown with Smaug's attack.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Oct 1 2012, 1:05am

Post #111 of 112 (634 views)
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I have no doubts [In reply to] Can't Post

Smaug will be in film 2. And I'd also bet he'll die in film 3. I think my scenario is very likely at this point.

"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower." -Unfinished Tales


SgtZimm
Registered User

Oct 17 2012, 9:13pm

Post #112 of 112 (428 views)
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Ok first post, first speculation [In reply to] Can't Post

   


The second film will end with the death of Smaug. The thing to remember is that although these films are based on The Hobbit, they are a prequel trilogy to LOTR & will be similar in format. Smaug like Saruman, will be defeated in the second film. Sauron will be defeated in the 3rd. The difference to the LOTR movie trilogy is our main protagonist (Bilbo) will be unaware of the big picture. Dol Guldor/white council is not a sub plot tacked onto the Hobbit, it is the mesh that will bind it all together as the 3 film arc. The great elves and wizzards fighting sauron...how could that not be the climax?


I am sure all respect will be made to the book... but yeah liberties will be taken and this is going to be something much grander in scope than we were to get in the 2 film format.

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