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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Galadriel and the Walls of Dol Guldur
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Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Sep 27 2012, 1:14pm

Post #51 of 66 (324 views)
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Book canon details aren't important in cases like this [In reply to] Can't Post

If Galadriel won't cast down the walls of Dol Guldur in the Hobbit movies, she's never going to do it in the filmverse. The audience will never see her reveal her full badassery. Tolkien's vision of her awesomeness will remain hidden from the movies.

It's the same as it is with the quotes: it's not important who says it, but that somebody gets to say it.

Besides, Dol Guldur isn't in LotR, so for all it matters for the movieverse it can be destroyed in TH.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 27 2012, 1:20pm

Post #52 of 66 (331 views)
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Who is to say that Galadriel can't bring down Dol Guldur in 'The Hobbit'... [In reply to] Can't Post

...only for the forces of Sauron to rebuild it at some point over the next sixty years? Then it could still be used as a base during the War of the Ring.

'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 27 2012, 1:21pm

Post #53 of 66 (347 views)
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I dont think Galadriels [In reply to] Can't Post

power was passive, it was more the power of Nature and growing things, you dont see the roots of trees turning stone to rubble, or twisting branches overgrowing mens palaces but it happens quietly and imperceptibly. Hers was a power of living things and the power of the Eldar. Thats why I am not too keen on the thought of Galadriel in a battle, and I dont expect she would do unless the very heart of Caras Galadhon was being threatened with destruction. I do like the thought of her cleansing the forest but I hope if she does throw down the walls of Dol Guldur it will be with an imagery of Nature transforming the dungeons and pits into flowering green plants pulsating with life.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Sep 27 2012, 1:23pm)


Eruonen
Tol Eressea


Sep 27 2012, 3:22pm

Post #54 of 66 (280 views)
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I thought along those lines as well...interesting to note the history [In reply to] Can't Post

of Dol Gulder

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Dol_Guldur

Some of the ruins could be left over from the capital of Oropher's Silvan realm. It had been an elvish location before Sauron.
In TA 2063 the WC attacked Dol Guldur and drove Sauron out.
" In TA 2460 Sauron returned there, just as the One Ring was found by Sméagol.."
So, it could have been ruined several times in its history.
" In TA 2850 Gandalf again entered Dol Guldur, and found the dying Thráin. "
" In TA 2941 Saruman finally agreed to an attack, which occurred at the same time as the Quest for Erebor."

So, the site was probably a combination of ruins and rebuilt fortress. We can presume that the WC was able to destroy some of it in TA 2063....and again finally after the LOTR period.

"The elves, led by Thranduil of Mirkwood and Galadriel of Lorien, and Dain of the dwarves led an assault on Dol Guldur and Galadriel herself threw down its walls, and laid its pits bare. Absolutely nothing of the fortress that had stood for 2,019 years was left. Renamed back to Amon Lanc, it became the capital of Celeborn's realm of East Lórien in the Fourth Age, while he remained in Middle-earth."

So, it was a fortress probably built upon a ruined Silvan elf capital, that had been partially destroyed several times before the final "clean up."


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Sep 27 2012, 3:24pm)


dubulous
Rohan

Sep 27 2012, 4:16pm

Post #55 of 66 (263 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
They never mentioned any of the events (the wars in the North) in the LOTR trilogy. Since this is our last return to Middle-earth, then I'd be happy for PJ to shuffle history a bit, and have Galadriel destroy Dol Guldur during the time of The Hobbit.



Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 27 2012, 4:33pm

Post #56 of 66 (258 views)
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Our last return [In reply to] Can't Post

to Middle Earth. thats quite sad. Frown I hope these films inspire another fanfilm like The Hunt for Gollum, I really enjoyed those.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Sep 27 2012, 4:35pm)


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Sep 27 2012, 5:43pm

Post #57 of 66 (249 views)
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Galadriel is a complex character [In reply to] Can't Post

She is old, wise and gentle by the time of Frodo's arrival, and that's the way the reader sees her. But she's quite a though, headstrong, wild girl. She has inner turmoil, that prideful ambition and rebellion even, that has been gentled by the years but not altogether lost. And I like that. She has multiple levels.

Also, attacking Dol Guldur wasn't the only moment she took active, aggressive part in a battle. She also defended her kin in Alqualondë against the other Noldor, and once again defended Doriath in its fall. Back in Valinor she was known not only for her great mind, but also as an athlete. Her very epessë "Galadriel/Alatariellë" comes from the way she plaited her her as braids around her head when she was participating in sports. Tolkien even used the word amazon in her context.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Eruonen
Tol Eressea


Sep 27 2012, 6:40pm

Post #58 of 66 (230 views)
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Her "tempted" self was quite powerful... [In reply to] Can't Post

http://thehobbitcentral.com/...ght_up_galadriel.jpg

http://booksandmusicandstuff.files.wordpress.com/...-29-13h58m07s184.png

Just beneath the tranquil surface...I bet Celeborn wondered what he got himself into with his marriage! No wonder he stayed around for another age after she left!


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 27 2012, 8:00pm

Post #59 of 66 (206 views)
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Correction: The WC did not attack Dol Guldur in TA 2063 [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Some of the ruins could be left over from the capital of Oropher's Silvan realm. It had been an elvish location before Sauron.
In TA 2063 the WC attacked Dol Guldur and drove Sauron out.
" In TA 2460 Sauron returned there, just as the One Ring was found by Sméagol.."
So, it could have been ruined several times in its history.
" In TA 2850 Gandalf again entered Dol Guldur, and found the dying Thráin. "
" In TA 2941 Saruman finally agreed to an attack, which occurred at the same time as the Quest for Erebor."

So, the site was probably a combination of ruins and rebuilt fortress. We can presume that the WC was able to destroy some of it in TA 2063....and again finally after the LOTR period.



Your source is in error. Gandalf the Grey carried out his first investigation of the Power in Dol Guldur in TA 2063. However, Sauron fled and Gandalf learned nothing of significance. The White Council did not attack the fortress until 2941.

'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 28 2012, 1:01am

Post #60 of 66 (176 views)
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Depending on your age [In reply to] Can't Post

It is likely that you may see a LOTR and/or Hobbit remake two or three decades from now.

At least I hope so...


Finrod
Rohan


Sep 28 2012, 1:16am

Post #61 of 66 (169 views)
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It’s now or never [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
If Galadriel won't cast down the walls of Dol Guldur in the Hobbit movies, she's never going to do it in the filmverse. The audience will never see her reveal her full badassery. Tolkien's vision of her awesomeness will remain hidden from the movies.

It's the same as it is with the quotes: it's not important who says it, but that somebody gets to say it.

Besides, Dol Guldur isn't in LotR, so for all it matters for the movieverse it can be destroyed in TH.


Yes, exactly. I agree entirely. But rather than repeat what I’ve already posted about this, let me just refer you to that older posting. I dare say that the imagery of the poetry makes it worth the trip.

…all eyes looked upon the ring; for he held it now aloft, and the green jewels gleamed there that the Noldor had devised in Valinor. For this ring was like to twin serpents, whose eyes were emeralds, and their heads met beneath a crown of golden flowers, that the one upheld and the other devoured; that was the badge of Finarfin and his house.
The Silmarillion, pp 150-151
while Felagund laughs beneath the trees
in Valinor and comes no more
to this grey world of tears and war.
The Lays of Beleriand, p 311




Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 28 2012, 4:16am

Post #62 of 66 (175 views)
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Well being six decades and four years [In reply to] Can't Post

I doubt if iI will see another one. Unless someone reboots Lord of the Rings.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 28 2012, 1:07pm

Post #63 of 66 (130 views)
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well they seem to be [In reply to] Can't Post

rebooting everything else. Mad


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 28 2012, 3:57pm

Post #64 of 66 (101 views)
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I hope they do [In reply to] Can't Post

Would like to see someone else bring Middle Earth to life.


Elthir
Gondor

Sep 28 2012, 4:17pm

Post #65 of 66 (145 views)
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the battles of Nerwen [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
She also defended her kin in Alqualondë against the other Noldor,...




Tolkien surely added this scenario to Galadriel's history, but the Silmarillion account (constructed by CJRT) actually makes no mention of this, and the initial idea (when Tolkien added Galadriel to the Elder Days) was that the children of Finarfin were not actually present at the kinslaying. But again, you are correct that Tolkien 'intended' this later, even in the very late scenario where he imagined Galadriel as not part of the Rebellion (although that much was already published in any case)!



Quote
... and once again defended Doriath in its fall.




At the moment I don't recall where this is noted. Can you source it please? In The Lord of the Rings Galadriel herself says of Celeborn that 'He has dwelt in the West since the days of dawn, and I have dwelt with him years uncounted; for ere the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin I passed over the mountains, and together through ages of the world we have fought the long defeat.'

Of course she didn't say which mountains I admit Wink considering what was also published in The Road Goes Ever On.


Elthir
Gondor

Oct 4 2012, 6:17pm

Post #66 of 66 (104 views)
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All I could find so far [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
'It is a natural assumption that Celeborn and Galadriel were present at the ruin of Doriath (it is said in one place that Celeborn 'escaped the sack of Doriath'), and perhaps aided the escape of Elwing to the Havens of Sirion with the Silmaril -- but this is nowhere stated.'

Christopher Tolkien, commentary, Unfinished Tales, The History of Celeborn and Galadriel




And the very late tale in which Galadriel is removed from the Rebellion (although again, Galadriel as a Rebel had already been published) has Celeborn and Galadriel not joining in the war against Angband, and they: 'departed over Ered Lindon before the end of the First Age'

Anyway, I still don't remember a text where Galadriel is certainly fighting in Doriath, although she remains a defender of Swanhaven in any case.

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