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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"I could never read Tolkien. I always found him unreadable." - Billy Connolly talks a bit about Tolkien and 'The Hobbit'.
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Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 26 2012, 3:16pm

Post #51 of 73 (722 views)
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too right!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

they should also get a clip round the lughole for good measure. Mad


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Sep 26 2012, 5:40pm

Post #52 of 73 (736 views)
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Or I could follow you around [In reply to] Can't Post

and hold up a sign, if you like? ;)

**********************************

NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011


Phibbus
Rohan


Sep 26 2012, 6:32pm

Post #53 of 73 (705 views)
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Thank you [In reply to] Can't Post

But I think you would have to walk in front as a fore-caution...

And it could become a full-time occupation...

Only serious applicants, please :)

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 26 2012, 7:24pm

Post #54 of 73 (718 views)
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The poems are not rubbish [In reply to] Can't Post

The Misty Mountain poem, for example, is one of the most evocative bits of writing in all of Tolkien's work, and a great poem that says a lot about the dwarves, and ancient modes of thinking.

I find it a little astounding how flippantly people trash Tolkien here, while criticisms of PJ are jumped on by legions as unfair, etc. etc.

Ah, well. To each his own, I suppose.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 26 2012, 7:26pm

Post #55 of 73 (703 views)
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Of course there's no problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Though this is, of course, a website for fans of JRR Tolkien.

So it's not surprising that some people find your view surprising! Smile


Debba521
Registered User

Sep 26 2012, 8:43pm

Post #56 of 73 (684 views)
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Connolly Quotes [In reply to] Can't Post

The guy's a big mouth, always has been. That's how he makes money. Just a shame he couldn't have shown a little more class and not insulted everyone from the author and filmmakers to the fans. I'll bet the filmmakers cringe every time he opens his mouth. Who knows, maybe they think he's funny, I don't. The thing about riding into battle on a pig nearly makes me sick. I hope that was just one of his bad jokes. But in the latest trailer, we do see a wizard flying through a forest on a sled pulled by giant bunnies, so I guess anything's possible...

Signed,
Someone a little less scary than
Billy Connolly Crazy


(This post was edited by Debba521 on Sep 26 2012, 8:45pm)


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 26 2012, 9:23pm

Post #57 of 73 (682 views)
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I haven't really seen anyone trash Tolkien around here. [In reply to] Can't Post

Unimpressed

King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.

Tim: Quite.


macfalk
Valinor


Sep 26 2012, 9:39pm

Post #58 of 73 (671 views)
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Well, thats just it [In reply to] Can't Post

I am a big fan of JRRT - just on so much of LOTR as of The Hobbit. Almost all my critique towards Tolkien have been LOTR-related, when I actually love his other work of art so much (TH).



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 26 2012, 9:51pm

Post #59 of 73 (679 views)
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This seems pretty damning [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
It's linear, the characters are underdeveloped, it has a strange change of style in the last third, it has an intrusive narrative voice, the poems are rubbish and kill the pace, it's twee, and so on.


Not saying that people aren't free to do so, but there seems to be a much more virulent reaction when PJ's films are criticized.

It's just surprising, that's all, on a site "forged by and for fans of JRR Tolkien."

But honestly, I would rather have it this way, than to have an echo chamber. I can't abide echo chambers.


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 26 2012, 10:30pm

Post #60 of 73 (685 views)
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I don't know, seems you have to be virulent to get virulent, and this ain't virulent [In reply to] Can't Post

and if I type virulent enough it starts to lose its meaning.

I've seen much more of people having a go at PJ, and in a much more virulent manner.

Virulently, even.

Laugh

King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.

Tim: Quite.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Sep 27 2012, 3:47am

Post #61 of 73 (646 views)
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Not so fast, please [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Though this is, of course, a website for fans of JRR Tolkien.

So it's not surprising that some people find your view surprising! Smile


The disingenous smiley nothwithstanding, that's quite the unwelcoming statement.

TORn welcomes *everyone* that abides by our ToS. It makes no difference whatsoever whether they're a 'book firster' or 'movie-firster.' It makes no difference if they've never read the books. They still love Tolkien in their own way - yes, thanks to Peter Jackson's movies.

You keep saying it should be okay for people to 'consistently' (read constantly) dislike the movies in favor of the books, so don't be judging people who *like* the movies in favor of the books.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 27 2012, 5:37am

Post #62 of 73 (666 views)
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I don't judge at all [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's another post of mine, that wasn't quoted in yours:


Quote
But honestly, I would rather have it this way, than to have an echo chamber. I can't abide echo chambers.


And calling something 'surprising' is hardly a judgment.

It means exactly what is says.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 27 2012, 5:56am

Post #63 of 73 (654 views)
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Not to mention [In reply to] Can't Post

That I have not only been welcoming to macfalk, but he and I have had many humorous and cordial exchanges, with some friendly acerbic barbs here and there. We have also formally decided that we enjoy each others' company.

So, the smiley was not disingenuous at all (a state of being I am not very comfortable with, anyway).

Just ask him!


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 27 2012, 8:03am

Post #64 of 73 (666 views)
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I'm giving examples of why people dislike The Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

Not my own opinion.

It tends to be people close to the literary establishment who dislike Tolkien's poetry. Probably for being nieve, heartfelt, and accessible; rather than contrived and incomprehensible, which seems to be the fashion.

Personally, I like some of Tolkien's poems better than others, but even on his worst day he never wrote anything nearly as bad as Carol Anne Duffy's Olympic poem.

But it's all taste. The world would be very boring if everyone liked the same stuff.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


macfalk
Valinor


Sep 27 2012, 12:38pm

Post #65 of 73 (678 views)
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True [In reply to] Can't Post

I enjoy discussing these topics with you, Shelob'sAppetite, and there's no hard feelings or anything.

However, I reacted, as Altaira to this.

"Though this is, of course, a website for fans of JRR Tolkien."

As much as I have enjoyed discussing various things on this board with you, and hopefully will in the future! I could not help feeling a little let down by the "a website for fans of JRR Tolkien" remark. It kind of felt like an insinuation that I don't "belong" here because I am not not a "fan" of JRR Tolkien. I am a fan, just not in the usual kind of way. It seems though that you didn't mean to have that sort of underlying message, but it was the initial reaction that I felt when reading it - if this was not your actual intent, which you say it wasn't (and I take your word for it) then I am prepared to let it go and move on Tongue




The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 27 2012, 4:33pm

Post #66 of 73 (589 views)
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It's a bit late for an edit, but if you want to know what truly bad poetry looks like, go here: [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.guardian.co.uk/...london?newsfeed=true

Warning: if you have to gnaw of your left leg to get through it, I won't be held responsible.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...

(This post was edited by Fardragon on Sep 27 2012, 4:35pm)


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 27 2012, 6:20pm

Post #67 of 73 (592 views)
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Although the post was directed at you, [In reply to] Can't Post

it received more than 100 views, so theoretically more than 100 people read the implicit message that only book fans are Real Fans. If that comment caused you to think you don't "belong" - someone who has been here a while and has had conversations with many of the others on this message board, how does that comment make others feel?

I agree with you and Altaira - this site is for anyone who considers him or herself a fan and there is no need to conform to some definition of real fan. All are welcome! Smile


elostirion74
Rohan

Sep 27 2012, 8:37pm

Post #68 of 73 (609 views)
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hardly probable [In reply to] Can't Post

I should think he has read at least the start of The Hobbit at some point and then decided itīs not his cup of tea. When he has spent a considerable number of years deciding that books by Tolkien are not what he would want to read, itīs difficult to imagine that reading the script would change his mind much. The weight of time matters quite a lot when it comes to these things in my experience.

Not that Connollyīs opinion of the books matter much to me; especially since itīs evident from his comments that he hasnīt given the subject much thought. The only thing I want from him and expect from him is good acting.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 27 2012, 9:41pm

Post #69 of 73 (586 views)
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and actually [In reply to] Can't Post

its not linear, its episodic.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 28 2012, 1:16am

Post #70 of 73 (537 views)
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Got it [In reply to] Can't Post

That makes sense.

However, the literary critics often miss the point of the poems. They are not written to be good, per se. They are usually written to say something about the character that is reciting it.

There is no reason, for example, for Sam's "troll" song/poem, to be "good" in terms of literary merit. It is a simple country song/poem, sung by a single country hobbit! It is meant to be rustic and "not that great" from a literary perspective.

Though personally, I find it delightful. Smile


Laitholiel_the_SeaElf
Lorien


Sep 29 2012, 4:51am

Post #71 of 73 (574 views)
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Well, it IS the Holy Grail... of fantasy.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien essentially created this genre, so lovers of fantasy fiction owe him quite a debt of gratitude.




But you are what you love,
And not what loves you back.
And I'm in love with illusions
So saw me in half.
I'm in love with tricks
So pull another rabbit out your hat.




Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 29 2012, 5:18am

Post #72 of 73 (543 views)
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Understood [In reply to] Can't Post

And I apologize for any offense caused, as that wasn't my intention at all. In fact, I wasn't implying that only fans of Tolkien should post here, but only that it is surprising to hear that someone likes the movies better.

Immediately after the comment quoted by Altaira, I included the following:

"So it's not surprising that some people find your view surprising!"


The reason I stated this website's tagline was not to ostracize, but to only explain why someone like me might find your perspective "surprising."

That was stated inelegantly, to be sure. But it really is all I meant. Because as I said before, I greatly abhor an echo chamber, and prefer places where diverse opinions are on display.

Indeed, if you suddenly decided that you liked the books better than the films, this would be a slightly more boring place!

Smile

In any event, my apologies to you or anyone else who might have taken offense!

-SA


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 29 2012, 1:58pm

Post #73 of 73 (585 views)
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Ah, this takes me back [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember reading The Hobbit. Then I remember reading Lord of the Rings. I don't remember ringing up Billy Connolly and asking him to form my opinion for me after I read them.

My point? It's his take on things. He's entitled. Didn't matter to me back then, doesn't matter to me now. Cool

King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.

Tim: Quite.

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