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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Clouds Burst *Spoilers
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entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 25 2012, 3:02pm

Post #26 of 32 (82 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

and I think that's what makes this part of the story so powerful. Bilbo knows he's stretching the terms of the contract by taking the Arkenstone, but he does it anyway. Thorin knows he doesn't have to comply with the demands to exchange Bilbo's share for the Arkenstone, but he does it anyway.


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 25 2012, 3:22pm

Post #27 of 32 (75 views)
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IMO [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo believes that the moral argument (preventing a war) completely outweighs any legal argument.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 25 2012, 3:33pm

Post #28 of 32 (71 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

but he still realizes he's stretching the argument, and that Thorin might not agree with him. I don't at all disagree with his decision, but I think the murkiness of both his and Thorin's actions make the story stronger.


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 25 2012, 3:38pm

Post #29 of 32 (75 views)
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By this point I think [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo had no expectation that Thorin would see anything his way.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 25 2012, 5:57pm

Post #30 of 32 (81 views)
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Given the attractive powers of the Arkenstone (very like a Silmarilion) [In reply to] Can't Post

and the fact that it is part of the Dragon's hoard it is no wonder Bilbo pocketed it. As to why he gave it up to the Elves & Men of Laketown; well he was able to give up the One Ring at a latter date. I don't think any of the participants gave a rat's patootie about English law. The entire affair is a rather interesting moral dilemma : no cut and dried answer. That is what makes this so interesting.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Solicitr
Lorien

Sep 25 2012, 6:21pm

Post #31 of 32 (56 views)
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Well, [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I don't think any of the participants gave a rat's patootie about English law.


The Dwarves did draft an extensive contract governing the enterprise Thorin & Co and its hired Burglar; and Hobbits as we all know are intensely legalistic, not to say litigious.

Does the Arkenstone have the attractive power of a Silmaril? There's nothing supernatural about the Arkenstone, it's just a very desirable bit of loot. The attractive power of the Maltese Falcon, maybe.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 25 2012, 8:36pm

Post #32 of 32 (112 views)
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There have been extensive discussions here on Torn about The Arkenstone [In reply to] Can't Post

as a prototype for the Silmarils. It has a special and perhaps magical spell it casts upon the individual who holds it.

And in the heat of the moment Thorin was not thinking in legal terms, contract or no.

I still think the best explanation for Thorin and Bilbo's behavior was the Dragon sickness attached to Smaug's amassed treasure. I am fairly sure that is what the author had in mind.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket


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