Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Balrog Cameo?

TooSoonTom
Registered User

Sep 20 2012, 8:28pm

Post #1 of 22 (1420 views)
Shortcut
Balrog Cameo? Can't Post

Will we see the Dwarves digging too deep and waking it up?


Lightice
Lorien

Sep 20 2012, 8:45pm

Post #2 of 22 (645 views)
Shortcut
Wrong location [In reply to] Can't Post

We're a few generations too late to witness that particular event, and unlikely to witness Khazad-Dûm at all in these movies, except just possibly from outside in a flashback of Thorin getting his nickname.


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 20 2012, 9:35pm

Post #3 of 22 (564 views)
Shortcut
Nope [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember a rumour in the old days, that there was a deleted scene of the Balrogs being shown as Mordor broke apart after the Ring was destroyed. No need for a cameo if it doesn't enhance (or progress) the story.


Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!




Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Sep 20 2012, 10:14pm

Post #4 of 22 (516 views)
Shortcut
Can't imagine it.. [In reply to] Can't Post

but maybe you'll get mean squirrels in mirkwood!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 21 2012, 1:47am

Post #5 of 22 (473 views)
Shortcut
eh? [In reply to] Can't Post

Balrog(s)?? i thought the last balrog was killed by Gandalf??



Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Sep 21 2012, 1:53am

Post #6 of 22 (482 views)
Shortcut
Honestly [In reply to] Can't Post

if they are going to have anything to do with the Balrog I only want a mention of him. And this would be that mention... Wink

“You are the father of our Folk, and we have bled for you, and will again. But we will not enter Khazad-dum. You will not enter Khazad-dum. Only I have looked through the shadow of the Gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still: Durin’s Bane. The world must change and some other power than ours must come before Durin’s Folk walk again in Moria.”

It would be AMAZING to hear that dialogue from Billy Connolly, that dialogue, not some modernized PJ made up version That exact dialogue. Evil


FiliSonOfDis
Rivendell


Sep 21 2012, 1:59am

Post #7 of 22 (466 views)
Shortcut
This is how I could see them doing it [In reply to] Can't Post

Dain flashback or even just a mention from him, maybe not in this first film matters how "dwarven history" is told to us.

It would be really awesome to show him see "Something" in a flashback and then maybe have Balin mention something about Moria and Dain subtly warning him not to try and retake it.


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 21 2012, 7:00am

Post #8 of 22 (375 views)
Shortcut
That's why it was a ridiculous rumour ;-) / [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!




xxxyyy
Rohan

Sep 21 2012, 2:02pm

Post #9 of 22 (280 views)
Shortcut
Sorry, but that speech is all wrong, movie wise. NO BALROG CAMEO, PLEASE! [In reply to] Can't Post

We know that Gimli thinks Moria is a nice (dwarvish) place, with dwarves living there. Balin has reclaimed Moria during The Hobbit and LOTR period, I'd say right after the Hobbit.
The Balrog is there but I'd say is "buried" deep in the mountains, it became a myth and nobody remembers it, just wizards in their old books.
I think the reason the Balrog showed itself in FOTR was because of Gandalf was with the fellowship.
Also, do you think Gandalf would have left Frodo to choose between going south near Isengard or Moria if he had knew Moria was infested by Orcs and there was a Barog running around there in the upper levels?
I repeat, Moria needs to be a nice place, to a standard of a dwarf, and the Balrog needs to be a legend, a myth.
Having said that, I DO NOT want to see a cameo of the Balrog, not even a glimpse of light from the east gate of Moria.
The movie needs to be consistent with itself, and not with the book... I mean, PJ and Co. need not to mix the two things up.

http://energyfromthorium.com/


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Sep 21 2012, 8:32pm

Post #10 of 22 (194 views)
Shortcut
That speech was written by Tolkien [In reply to] Can't Post

in the histories that these films are covering. How is it not right for the films? Dain said that to Thrain after the beheading of Azog, all 3 of which are characters involved with these films. I'm not saying show the Balrog. I'm merely saying that that speech would be fitting and elude to things to come of the Balrog. That speech was given long before the quest that Thorin and the others took to reclaim Erobor. Which I am sure they will show this event, Its powerful dialogue (unlike some of the crap dialogue PJ chooses to use) and it eludes to events from FOTR.
Gandalf wasn't there, nor was Balin when Dain said that to Thrain, for all they knew Moria was infested with orcs and nothing more. besides Balin was warned by Dain not to try and reclaim Moria at the point he did try to reclaim it. As far as Gimli he simply doesn't know about Moria since there had been no news from there. I think it was more assumption on Gimli's part that things were well in Moria. That speech actually gives Dain Ironfoot some sort of wisdom that can be used as a character trait, being that he will become King under the mountain... Besides that Peter Jackson just can't help himself for throwing in every little tie in to his LOTR films. Again I'm not saying show the Balrog but hint at and refer to him while not showing him would be a nice prelude of what is to come without telling anyone anything.

Not mix the two? Not be consistent with the Book? Really? you realize these films are based, mind you loosely, but still based on the books they should be embracing the books more instead of pushing them further away. That was many peoples biggest problem with the LOTR films was the deviation from the source material.


xxxyyy
Rohan

Sep 21 2012, 10:30pm

Post #11 of 22 (174 views)
Shortcut
You are mixing the books and the movies... that's the problem. [In reply to] Can't Post

You say Gimli doesn't know what's happening in Moria because there ware no news from there.
No news from Moria? Where did you hear that? Not from the movies. From what I can understand there, Moria is relatively safe during LOTR, and Gimli seems to be pretty sure about that. Dwarves are there and no Balrog has been seen since... dwarves can remember.
Consistency with the movies is essential, or otherwise we would end up with an illogical mess.
What PJ and all the other people down there are trying to do is art, or better, trying to convert one form of art into another, and that's a difficult task.
You may say it's just crap, but please, allow me to disagree.

http://energyfromthorium.com/


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Sep 21 2012, 11:18pm

Post #12 of 22 (167 views)
Shortcut
Please feel free to disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

But everything PJ has done even as far removed from the books has still been based on them. whether you care to believe that or not. The books are the basis for everything in the films. Otherwise it wouldn't be an adaptation. Book canon should be held with reverence instead of being spit upon when it comes to making films from a source material like the Hobbit.

Considering everyone at that scene was either dead or warned against going to Moria by the sole remaining dwarf at that scene, just because PJ didn't include it in LOTR doesn't make it so. Tolkien made it clear that news from Moria was sparse so it is quite possible Gimli had no clue since Gloin still resided in Erobor. Peter Jackson has stated they are using material from the appendixes which this scene is directly from. and since they are presenting dwarven backstory I'm sure it will be in there.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 22 2012, 12:33am

Post #13 of 22 (158 views)
Shortcut
Consistency with the movies is not essential, IMO [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ can do whatever he wants.

But I personally would rather he aim for greater consistency with the book.


xxxyyy
Rohan

Sep 22 2012, 1:20am

Post #14 of 22 (144 views)
Shortcut
As you say... [In reply to] Can't Post

 

http://energyfromthorium.com/


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 22 2012, 8:46am

Post #15 of 22 (149 views)
Shortcut
The ship sailed over 12 years ago. [In reply to] Can't Post

Since he's making a hexology, making a series internally consistent is more important than making a series consistent with the source material.

Smile


Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 23 2012, 5:26am

Post #16 of 22 (104 views)
Shortcut
A glimpse of him after The Battle of Azunalbizar is more likely and fitting. [In reply to] Can't Post

The original release of the great demon would be perfect for a general overview of the history of the dwarves, and the beginnings of their great woes in the thid Age.

But the more likely cameo would be after the battle of dwarves and goblins, when Thrain hoped to reclaim their Father kingdom of Khazad Dum, but Dain forbade it, having glimpsed that mightiest terror of dwarves nightmare, Durin,s Bane, The Balrog, and had been utterly terrified, and knew "beyond the gate, It waits for you still. The world must change, and some greater power than that of the dwarves must come here before Durin's folk will walk again in Moria."




In Reply To
Will we see the Dwarves digging too deep and waking it up?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Sep 23 2012, 2:15pm

Post #17 of 22 (84 views)
Shortcut
Almost exactly what i said before [In reply to] Can't Post

but I don't think we'll actually be seeing the Balrog. To me it would make more sense to mention him and not see him. That way when we see him in FOTR, he is as breath taking as ever.Wink But I love Dain's dialogue at the gates of Moria upon his seeing the balrog. It's powerful and emotional and doesn't give away anything that happens to Balin later on.Smile


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 23 2012, 10:01pm

Post #18 of 22 (66 views)
Shortcut
I do think it would be better to see him, however [In reply to] Can't Post

We might, perhaps see him realized as we see him depicted in Saruman's tome, appropiately shrouded in shadow, with the flaming eyes and the shape of his head dominating, then Dain smitten with terror. . . There are other things I might do which Jackson might not, but I think having Him. Present does wonders for e setup. It gives more evidence of his history and his significance to the history of The Dwarves. He is not merely some terror who pops up to challenge The Fellowship, rather he is an dread evil who has long plagued the people's of Middle Earth, which gives far greater relevance to Gandalf,s deed. He IS the Power which Dain suggested without detail knowledge.


In Reply To
but I don't think we'll actually be seeing the Balrog. To me it would make more sense to mention him and not see him. That way when we see him in FOTR, he is as breath taking as ever.Wink But I love Dain's dialogue at the gates of Moria upon his seeing the balrog. It's powerful and emotional and doesn't give away anything that happens to Balin later on.Smile


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Sep 23 2012, 10:13pm

Post #19 of 22 (59 views)
Shortcut
true [In reply to] Can't Post

but they need to leave some mystery for FOTR, in dealing with Balin's fate and letting Gimli's enthusiasm for going to Moria have some merit. If we actually see the Balrog it could undermine the scenes from FOTR. You know I usually agree with you AO and I think your theory is a good one I just don't see them actually showing the Balrog this time around


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 24 2012, 2:07am

Post #20 of 22 (95 views)
Shortcut
They might not, yet I think greater relevance and history may outweigh mystery, especially since Saruman's already [In reply to] Can't Post

Dispenses much of the mystery by forecasting the
Presence of this Demon of Might. I also think the true power and malevolent majesty of The Balrog, and the dire dread of it, could use expansion. Currently, From a film only perspective, it is just this terrible demon that shows up to harass the felowship and challenge Gandalf. We know that this Demon Thane was the first and greatest martial foe of The Dwarves in The Third Age. Their great dispossess or, slayer of their kings, who expels them from their greatest home, exiling them ever after, and driving many an Elf form Lothlorien through the sheer power of the fear of Him.

Having Dain glimpse The Balrog and fall back in terror really does not diminish the mystery of The Demon, but it greatly adds to the legend, horror and history of him. Him becomes an historically relevant horror, rather than just a random Boss challenge as in a video game.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Elessar
Valinor


Sep 24 2012, 2:34am

Post #21 of 22 (55 views)
Shortcut
I'm with ya [In reply to] Can't Post

Just a decent enough glimpse would really add importance to what we see in fotr. It as I like to say it puts some more meat on the bone that we get in fotr.



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 24 2012, 11:51pm

Post #22 of 22 (74 views)
Shortcut
That is how I see it as well. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it would hurt rather than harm the narrative.

In Reply To
Just a decent enough glimpse would really add importance to what we see in fotr. It as I like to say it puts some more meat on the bone that we get in fotr.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.