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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"So this is your purpose: to enter the mountain?"

Túrin_Turambar
The Shire

Sep 20 2012, 1:29am

Post #1 of 22 (2383 views)
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"So this is your purpose: to enter the mountain?" Can't Post

Thorin: "What of it?
Cut to Goblin Town scene.
Elrond: "There are some who will not deem it wise."

At first I thought this part of the conversation in the trailer simply referred to the Dwarves entering the Lonely Mountain. However, the scene switching to briefly to Goblin Town in the Misty Mountains during the conversation seems to suggest that that the Company is perhaps planning to journey through/under the Misty Mountains from the start, instead of being captured by the Goblins inside the cave/shelter by accident. I hope I'm wrong.


Owain
Tol Eressea


Sep 20 2012, 1:34am

Post #2 of 22 (1195 views)
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I think that is more a case... [In reply to] Can't Post

of the editor for the trailer cutting together dialogue that works with a visual in the movie.

The context of that scene indicates to me that they are discussing the Lonely Mountain.

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 20 2012, 1:39am

Post #3 of 22 (936 views)
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I agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

It was speculated earlier that the crystal/ice plinth scene is where they are reading the moon letters on the map of the Lonely Mountain. I think Elrond has just discovered the runes explaining the location of the secret door, and is realizing that the dwarves plan to enter by it - and by doing so are highly likely to anger the dragon.

Trailers are often highly misleading in the way they splice completely different scenes together.

Silverlode



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Owain
Tol Eressea


Sep 20 2012, 1:41am

Post #4 of 22 (944 views)
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As a small side note... [In reply to] Can't Post

I love that crystal/ice plinth location... another side of Rivendell we haven't seen.

Laugh

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 20 2012, 1:45am

Post #5 of 22 (876 views)
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oh yeah! [In reply to] Can't Post

 



Jeremy
Rivendell


Sep 20 2012, 1:46am

Post #6 of 22 (838 views)
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Nah [In reply to] Can't Post

I never thought he meant anything other than the Lonely Mountain


GoodGuyA
Lorien

Sep 20 2012, 1:50am

Post #7 of 22 (1010 views)
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My biggest quabble with the scene is how Elrond says it [In reply to] Can't Post

"There are SOME who would not deem it wise."

Why's he being so facetious about it? Why not say "I don't think that is wise"? He's obviously implying something heavy here, but is he trying to mask it because of the tension between the two cultures? Interests me greatly.



Reptile
Rivendell


Sep 20 2012, 1:51am

Post #8 of 22 (887 views)
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Opens up some interesting comparisons [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps this will be played as an homage to the scene in Lord of the Rings where Gandalf and Aragorn (I may be confusing book from movie here) argue about the option of going through the mines of Moria. Maybe they will have a discussion about the under-mountain path, as it appears that Gandalf was at least familiar with the layout of the goblin tunnels. Maybe this, like Moria, was formerly a mine that the dwarves prospected and abandoned, now taken over as a Goblin stronghold. In the Book, Bilbo mentions having to get over, or under, the Misty Mountains.

This would not bother me at all, they could still have planned to cross by a different rout, only to find their alternate path had become the goblins' back door.

Another interesting thing about this scene that I haven't noticed comments on is the giant crystal (calcite? gypsum?) table where they are having this conversation. I wonder whether this odd back corner of, apparently, Imladris is where they will be able to read the moon writing on Thorin's map. In which case they might just be talking about the mission to sneak into enter the Lonely Mountain by the back door.

"If you listen closely, you can hear the gods laughing."


Jeremy
Rivendell


Sep 20 2012, 2:08am

Post #9 of 22 (817 views)
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Maybe... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
"There are SOME who would not deem it wise."

Why's he being so facetious about it? Why not say "I don't think that is wise"? He's obviously implying something heavy here, but is he trying to mask it because of the tension between the two cultures? Interests me greatly.


Maybe he just got back from the White Council and Saruman tried convincing Gandalf and Elrond that the dwarves shouldn't go to the mountain.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Sep 20 2012, 2:23am

Post #10 of 22 (784 views)
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The word "Wise" implies Saruman the Wise [In reply to] Can't Post

Wants Smaug right where is.


PattyJB
Rivendell


Sep 20 2012, 2:34am

Post #11 of 22 (794 views)
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`Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes.' // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



Lausus
Bree


Sep 20 2012, 4:25am

Post #12 of 22 (652 views)
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I'm interested to see [In reply to] Can't Post

how they will make this feel different from Fellowship of the Ring and make it clear that goblin town is distinct from Moria. After all, we have a perilous mountain crossing with boulders/snow falling down on our heroes and then an underground journey through the mountain in both films. I think non-readers could end up wondering where the balrog is and that sort of thing, but I'm sure the film team has come up with some good ways to make it clear.


Owain
Tol Eressea


Sep 20 2012, 4:54am

Post #13 of 22 (801 views)
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Back when Guillermo Del Toro was director... [In reply to] Can't Post

and participated here with the tORN community, there was a lively debate about comparing and contrasting the similarities between Tolkien's 2 beloved works, The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.

There were a lot of different ideas to be sure.

There are, indeed many similarities (of which you have already wonderfully pointed out a few) as well as many more differences in plot, characters, locations, and the general exposition/narrative structure. There are some that have pointed out that the story is not so much about who, what, when, where or why but rather how it is told. And others, that see all of the aforementioned needing differentiation in order to have a legitimate set of movies.

I like the idea of cross-crossing between the similarities and accentuating the differences. I want to know the who, what, when, where, and sometimes why and I'd like it to not feel like I've seen this all before... beat for beat. Indeed, the how is very important.

Smile

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 20 2012, 6:42am

Post #14 of 22 (605 views)
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And it's behind a huge waterfall! [In reply to] Can't Post

Can you imagine the moon shining through the curtain of water!


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Owain
Tol Eressea


Sep 20 2012, 6:46am

Post #15 of 22 (579 views)
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I love the ambiance. [In reply to] Can't Post

Looking forward to more of this scene.

Moonlight and waterfalls... Beautiful Smile

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 20 2012, 6:58am

Post #16 of 22 (615 views)
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Did you notice the brief white light from the ice table in the trailer? [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder if that is the Moon, or something else?


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easterlingchief1
Rivendell


Sep 20 2012, 7:41am

Post #17 of 22 (524 views)
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well, not necessarily [In reply to] Can't Post

The wise just seems to be a general term for "people in the know in Middle Earth." I think Elrond is just being Elrond here. He's using that Elvish way with word of his to warn/chide an upstart, would-be-king dwarf Cool


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 20 2012, 10:34am

Post #18 of 22 (408 views)
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Pretty sure [In reply to] Can't Post

This comment is from the scene where Elrond deciphers the map. The book doesn't tell us his opinion on the matter, but I wouldn't really expect him to see eye-to-eye with Thorin. ;)

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Sep 20 2012, 12:05pm

Post #19 of 22 (350 views)
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another comparison [In reply to] Can't Post

first a balrog in moria and now a dragon under lonely mountain.

Elron knows that there is Smaug, so it's pretty clear why he says that it'd not be wise to play games with a dragon.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 20 2012, 12:29pm

Post #20 of 22 (330 views)
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I think [In reply to] Can't Post

Elrond was referring to Smaug, I love his understated hauteur. Elrond is The Man.Cool


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Sep 20 2012, 12:31pm)


Túrin_Turambar
The Shire

Sep 20 2012, 1:41pm

Post #21 of 22 (367 views)
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I rewatched the trailer [In reply to] Can't Post

and found that when taking this scene in context with the whole trailer, it does seem like they are referring to the Lonely Mountain after all.


Jago M
Bree

Nov 12 2012, 5:20pm

Post #22 of 22 (64 views)
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from an early blog [In reply to] Can't Post

We see Weaving rehears this line with peter jackson and the other actors from this scene.
He also says his line:
"you're not the only guardian to stand watch over middle -earth".
How would this line be placed in the unfolding discussion between the protagonists?

 
 

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