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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Aug 8 2012, 11:16pm
Post #51 of 75
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I think, perhaps, both a foreshadowing and an inspiration
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for Bilbo remembered and loved, even as a middle aged man, Gandalf's fireworks. Remembered them better than he did Gandalf himself. Mayhaps Gandalf had used Dragon fireworks before, some in the likeness of the most famous Dragon of that time (and of The Third Age), Smaug The Magnificent. It may be that, within the films, a child Bilbo may comment to the Wizard on that firework, "Are there really dragons, Mr. Gandalf. . .(and in a Nod to Samwise on The Elves) oh I would dearly love to see one!" And The Wizard remembered it.
It seems plausible, and could actually work extremely well, and does indeed dovetail with the memories of Bilbo that partly prompted Gandalf to consider him in the first place. By including such a scene, they could get at the heart of what is mentioned in UTales without actually crossing the copyright lines. (also for the excuse to distract myself by re-watching the whole vlog...  ) The firework is very similar, as you say. So as the scene doesn't seem to be a reprise of Bilbo's party, because it is different, I take it they're working on the assumption that Gandalf has a set range of firework designs. When you think about it, it's interesting that he has fireworks at all. He wouldn't need them when he arrives with the dwarves and he wouldn't be likely to have them when he and Bilbo return at the end. They must have included them for a reason - in Fellowship (the book) the dragon firework is a reminder of Smaug. Do you think they might be using it as some sort of foreshadowing - not of Smaug by name, but just introducing the idea of dragons...?
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Aug 8 2012, 11:19pm
Post #52 of 75
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I think Phibbus is right in assuming
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that if we see Took's party, Bilbo will be a child, not an adolescent/young man. Will we have Martin Freeman as an even younger Bilbo, or a different actor?
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Aug 8 2012, 11:25pm
Post #53 of 75
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Depends on where we get the scene. I prefer the notion of a flashback, after/during
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Bilbo's encounter with Gandalf, just as in the book. Tolkien doesn't keep where Gandalf knew Bilbo from a mystery beyond the first few pages.
Somewhere in the area between "You know my name too, though you have forgotten that I belong to it. I am Gandalf! And Gandalf means me!" and Bilbo's repsponse, insert flashback. I believe we will gt a scene of Gandalf interacting with a young Bilbo, which will set up:
a. Gandalf's belief that he's the Hobbit for the job
b. Bilbo's recognition of Gandalf later on, and rationale for avoiding him.
Personally, I prefer Gandalf being kept rather mysterious as he was in the book, but PJ does seem very, very intent on explaining all the mystery. As he said, they are trying to make everything in the book that seems random, not random.
So we are in for lots of explanatory scenes, and connections, etc.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Aug 8 2012, 11:27pm)
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kzer_za
Lorien
Aug 9 2012, 12:22pm
Post #54 of 75
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In the Quest for Erebor, Gandalf says he met Bilbo as a child
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And that he has had his eye on Bilbo for quite some time. So if this interpretation of the photo is correct (and at this point there's no way to be sure), it's not like PJ is making stuff up here.
(This post was edited by kzer_za on Aug 9 2012, 12:31pm)
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Aug 9 2012, 1:26pm
Post #55 of 75
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It fits perfectly with what UTales says, and yet it does not tread on the legal boundaries, because you are essentially told the same thing in The Hobbit novel itself. It explicitly states that, aside from The Old Took's funeral, Gandalf had not been to The Shire since Bilbo and his kin were all little "hobbit boys and hobbit girls", and went on to demonstrate how much of a lasting impression the magic fireworks displays Gandalf used to perform at Took's Midsummer Eve parties had left on Bilbo's memories.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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kzer_za
Lorien
Aug 9 2012, 2:28pm
Post #56 of 75
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If they're showing Gandalf meeting child Bilbo, I think it would be better to do it later.
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Throwing the flashback into the middle of Gandalf and Bilbo's first meeting could break the flow and momentum of the scene, which will hopefully be quite charming and witty. Plus there will already probably be some flashbacks at the beginning on Smaug, Erebor, etc.
And I think the scene would just be more effective after Gandalf and Bilbo have already established a relationship and perhaps after Bilbo has already changed some. Think of the Smeagol/Deagol flashback - it was at the beginning in the book and in the movie it was originally going to be there when we were just getting to know Gollum. But for film purposes, it ended up working better elsewhere.
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Aug 9 2012, 3:10pm
Post #57 of 75
(388 views)
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Was a child Frodo, as he quite looks like him. I believe he is Serkis' son.
There is also another kid in that vlog, who looks like an older version of the small child on the chair. I think he is also Serkis' son, and guessed that he may be playing a slightly older Frodo.
Hmmm...
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Aug 9 2012, 3:17pm
Post #59 of 75
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But isn't it interesting how Serkis' children seem to be made up as younger Frodos? The older one, at least, looks almost exactly like Elijah...
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Aug 9 2012, 3:56pm
Post #60 of 75
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Bilbo as a child is far more likely than Frodo...
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Was a child Frodo, as he quite looks like him. I believe he is Serkis' son.
There is also another kid in that vlog, who looks like an older version of the small child on the chair. I think he is also Serkis' son, and guessed that he may be playing a slightly older Frodo.
Hmmm...
At least we can find reasons to flash back to a young Bilbo. There is no reason, in the context of the story, to flash forward to a small Frodo. Frodo enters the timeline long after the events of The Hobbit.
"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn
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DanielLB
Immortal
Aug 9 2012, 4:44pm
Post #61 of 75
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They just look like all the other Hobbit children.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Aug 9 2012, 7:03pm
Post #62 of 75
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...is not one of the Serkis children, I'm sure. He's darker, and looks a little smaller.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Aug 9 2012, 10:08pm
Post #63 of 75
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Is this Gandalf at the mystery Hobbit party, or in the Elven and Human camp on the eve of the BO5A?
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dormouse
Half-elven
Aug 9 2012, 10:20pm
Post #64 of 75
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... the tent looks the same colour as the mystery hobbit party ones, so I vote for that. He's... er..... telling the hobbitlings, including little Bilbo, all about dragons. How about that?
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DanielLB
Immortal
Aug 9 2012, 10:24pm
Post #65 of 75
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He's thumbing for a lift on Radagast's bunny sled!
I thought of the camp outside the Lonely Mountain because of the flag/banner on the right - doesn't look very Hobbitsh.
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Aug 9 2012, 10:37pm
Post #66 of 75
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I also thought that was from a hobbit party
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But on a closer look, that banner seems rather elvish...
I think it's a tent, perhaps Thranduil's, outside the mountain.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Aug 9 2012, 10:41pm
Post #67 of 75
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Is that eyebrow or a cut above his right eye?
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Aug 10 2012, 2:05am
Post #68 of 75
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Almost certain Thranduil's camp. The tent may be the same general colour, however
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this tent is FAR more elabourate, elegant and regal looking. Aside from the height being all wrong, and it being more of a golden hue than the yellow Hobbit tent, look at all the tassels and drapes. None of the Hobbit tents looked like that, so it is almost certainly the Warcamp of The Elves, and not a scene from the Hobbit party of mystery. Is this Gandalf at the mystery Hobbit party, or in the Elven and Human camp on the eve of the BO5A?
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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DanielLB
Immortal
Aug 10 2012, 6:23am
Post #69 of 75
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They are very similar colours though.... /
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Oin K
Rivendell
Aug 12 2012, 11:19pm
Post #70 of 75
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It's a memorable prop from FOTR, so they may have just thrown it in as a visual reference.
On the other hand, maybe it's the same firework, and Gandalf has been saving it all these years - making it all the more comical that it was Merry and Pippin who finally set it off!
They could even go so far as to include a quick exchange where one of the hobbit children points to it and says, "Do that one!" to which Gandalf replies with a wink, "No, that one I am saving, for a special occasion."
"The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep-breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their snouts were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a snoutless Dwarf - unless he were rhinoplasted in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have snouts from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike..." (History of Middle Earth, volume 11, The War of the Truffles, p. 205)
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Aug 13 2012, 3:07am
Post #72 of 75
(289 views)
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These "winks" to LOTR could add up to Lucasian proportions if one is not careful...
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DanielLB
Immortal
Aug 13 2012, 7:18am
Post #73 of 75
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I doubt a firework could last 60 years /
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Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Aug 13 2012, 9:39am
Post #74 of 75
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EVEN IF IT WAS MADE BY A WIZARD? //
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Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Aug 13 2012, 9:55am
Post #75 of 75
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Even by a wizard! Moisture always finds a way in! /
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