Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
** The Hobbit, “Riddles in the Dark”** 1. – On and on he went, and down and down

squire
Valinor


Aug 7 2012, 12:29am

Post #1 of 10 (601 views)
Shortcut
** The Hobbit, “Riddles in the Dark”** 1. – On and on he went, and down and down Can't Post

Welcome to this week’s Reading Room discussion of Chapter Five in The Hobbit, “Riddles in the Dark.” This is a very well-known chapter for reasons that Tolkien certainly did not anticipate when he published The Hobbit in 1938.

More famous than the rest
This chapter all like best.
At its chills and giggles
No bedtime listener wiggles.
But it was altered long ago
What is the secret few now know?

He might have guessed that its latter-day fame would come from the clever suite of rhymed riddle-verses that he invented for Bilbo’s competition with Gollum. Certainly that is what he took pride in at the time, as his letters show. But the answer to the riddle above is what he himself discovered just a few months after publication: that the best device on which to build a sequel to The Hobbit was the magical ring that Bilbo found in Gollum’s cave. Once the ring became the One Ring, Tolkien felt obliged to rewrite large sections of this chapter so that the circumstances of its finding would be consistent with its later stature as the Doom of Middle-earth.

I will do my best to address the fact that there are two “Riddles in the Dark” chapters, one dating from 1938 and one from 1951 – but not today.

Today, we will follow Bilbo from the end of the last chapter, lying unconscious on the floor of a dark cave tunnel, to the point where he arrives at Gollum’s lake.

A. Do Bilbo’s feelings on waking, and his recovery of his equilibrium and senses, reflect what happens when you are thrown violently onto a stone surface?

Bilbo discovers the Ring just at this moment. It is very far from Gollum’s lake, as we will soon see.
B. How did the Ring come to “leave” Gollum (as it is later said in LotR) at this point in the tunnels? Wouldn’t he have heard it hit the stone floor?

Bilbo tries to console himself by thinking of “frying bacon and eggs” back home, but it just makes him more depressed.
C. Why does Bilbo think of a breakfast meal as the answer to a need for “some meal or other”?

Bilbo attempts to smoke “after some time” of being miserable.
D. Where else do we see tobacco used in the story?

E. Is it “politically incorrect” for today’s readers that Bilbo smokes with pleasure (or wishes he could, in this case)?

F. On a minor note, given the major changes we know are coming, why did Tolkien not later edit this part to change “tobacco” to “pipe weed” as the product is called in LotR?

The sword turns out to be an “Elvish blade” with the quality of glowing when evil creatures are near.
G. Why hasn’t Bilbo thought of or looked at this sword before this? Surely wearing a sword “inside his breeches” is going to be uncomfortable enough that one would take it out for sleeping at least, no?

H. Where are the goblins just now, so that the blade glows dimly?

The narrator reassures us that Bilbo is not in as uncomfortable a spot as we readers might think. Hobbits, evidently, are “not quite like ordinary people” with regard to being underground; are tough and resilient physically; and … wait for it, you’d want this if you were buried deep in a mine … they know a lot of old sayings!
I. What’s up with that last bit?

As Bilbo decides to go on, since he knows goblins are behind him and doesn’t know what’s ahead, the tunnel continues downward as it did in the previous chapter.
J. Why are there “twist(s) and a turn or two”?

Bats “whirr” past his ears, so often that he stops being bothered by it. This just doesn’t ring true to me, given the setting (a long narrow tunnel miles from the outside), but I imagine that when I was a kid and didn’t know any better this just added to the suspense.
K. How much of this setting is Tolkien representing from nature, and how much from storytelling traditions?

Bilbo repeatedly imagines monsters in the dark that are not goblins: “Goodness knows what the striking of matches and the smell of tobacco would have brought on him out of dark holes in that horrible place.” “hurry past [side passages] for fear of goblins or half-imagined dark things coming out of them.” “he thought, too, of nasty slimy things, with big bulging blind eyes, wriggling in the water.” (squire’s bolds)
L. Why do we imagine “monsters” in darkness? What is such fear based on?

M. Are children more vulnerable to such writing (I’m thinking of Monsters Inc. now, right)? Why or why not?

More specifically, as he encounters the lake, the narrator takes over and assures us that Bilbo is right: “there are other things living unbeknown to [the goblins] that have sneaked in from outside to lie up in the dark.” “the original owners [of the caverns] are still there in odd comers, slinking and nosing about.” (squire’s bolds)
N. Is this a reference to Gollum, called “slinker” and “old noser” in LotR? If so, isn’t it the shortest foreshadowing on record since he shows up in the next line? If not, who is Tolkien referring to so specifically?

What If?

As a special feature, I’d like to turn to the writing style of The Hobbit – something some readers dislike and some readers cherish, especially in contrast to the later book, The Lord of the Rings. Below I identify some turns of speech that Tolkien uses in this chapter, that I think he would not use in the same way in LotR. You may comment any way you want – or even better, suggest how Tolkien might have rewritten these words, had he decided to complete the infamous 1960 revision of The Hobbit to place it more in the stylistic world of LotR.

1. Just imagine his fright!
2. neither up nor down it could he find anything
3. gave himself up to complete miserableness,
4. it was high time for some meal or other
5. that only made him miserabler.
6. It was not broken, and that was something.
7. Goodness knows what
8. in slapping all his pockets and feeling all round himself
9. It was rather splendid to be wearing a blade
10. he had noticed that such weapons made a great impression on goblins
11. “Go back?” he thought. “No good at all! Go sideways? Impossible! Go forward? Only thing to do! On we go!”
12. his heart all of a patter and a pitter.
13. Bilbo was in what is called a tight place.
14. it was not quite so tight for him as it would have been for me or for you.
15. I should not have liked to have been in Mr. Baggins’ place, all the same.
16. until he was tireder than tired.
17. It seemed like all the way to tomorrow and over it to the days beyond.
18. without any warning he trotted splash into water! Ugh!
19. That pulled him up sharp and short.
20. goodness only knows how many years ago,




squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 7 2012, 12:32pm

Post #2 of 10 (194 views)
Shortcut
1937 [In reply to] Can't Post

The first edition of TH was published by George Allen & Unwin on 21st September 1937. There was a second printing, dated December 1937; but due to delays in binding it didn't reach the shops till January 1938.

I don't remember which month the Houghton Mifflin edition came out; it was some time in '38.


squire
Valinor


Aug 7 2012, 5:22pm

Post #3 of 10 (182 views)
Shortcut
Thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I always get that confused. I think it's because I tend to think of the U.S first edition (Houghton Mifflin 1938, as you note) when working on proto-Hobbit archaeology.

Going forward, I will be good.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 7 2012, 6:04pm

Post #4 of 10 (211 views)
Shortcut
You're welcome - [In reply to] Can't Post

as a metter of interest (or not) -- Smile -- there is one book by Tolkien which was published in the USA before it was published in the UK - does anyone know what that book is called?


sador
Half-elven


Aug 8 2012, 8:05am

Post #5 of 10 (163 views)
Shortcut
Answers [In reply to] Can't Post

My participation this week will be erratic at best: having just finished a massive project at work, going with the family on vacation next week - and I have still volunteered to lead the next chapter, so I need to prepare in advance! I'll do want I can.

A. Do Bilbo’s feelings on waking, and his recovery of his equilibrium and senses, reflect what happens when you are thrown violently onto a stone surface?
Thank God, I don't think this ever happened to me. I can't say.

B. How did the Ring come to “leave” Gollum (as it is later said in LotR) at this point in the tunnels? Wouldn’t he have heard it hit the stone floor?
Jackson's FotR supplied an interesting answer - which is strictly out of bounds on both accounts.


The simplest answer is that it fell off when that young goblin-urchin was squawking, so Gollum missed that noise; also that it possibly rolled off quietly to a different place before it hit the wall and came to rest.

The really curious thing is, if Gollum was ever brooding on the Ring, possibly talking to it (yes, I know what you're going to say about this on the next thread...) - how did he miss it when he went back to the island? Wasn't it a regular rite of taking it off and putting it somewhere safe?

C. Why does Bilbo think of a breakfast meal as the answer to a need for “some meal or other”?
He just woke up.

And I expect this was the last homely meal he ever had, when he left in a hurry before second breakfast (of course, this contradicts my suggestion here. I am anything if not inconsistent).

D. Where else do we see tobacco used in the story?
In one of his dreams? I don't remember.

Okay, found it:

Quote
"All of them at once," said Bilbo. "And a very fine morning for a pipe of tobacco out of doors, into the bargain. If you have a pipe about you, sit down and have a fill of mine!"


E. Is it “politically incorrect” for today’s readers that Bilbo smokes with pleasure (or wishes he could, in this case)?
I remember Jackson and co. struggled with it. They ended up deciding it would be unfaithful to Tolkien to leave this out, so mitigated it by having Gandaalf choke a bit on his smoke in Minas Tirith, and having Saruman scold him for the habit (however, not mentioning Gandalf's spirited defence of it in Unfinished Tales).

F. On a minor note, given the major changes we know are coming, why did Tolkien not later edit this part to change “tobacco” to “pipe weed” as the product is called in LotR?
I don't think this was important.
But did he change the first chapter? I should check Rateliff.

G. Why hasn’t Bilbo thought of or looked at this sword before this?
A good burglar's instinct.
He sees something unnoticed, he takes it - only long after, wondering what it actually is.

Like the ring.

Surely wearing a sword “inside his breeches” is going to be uncomfortable enough that one would take it out for sleeping at least, no?
Makes sense, but I don't know.

H. Where are the goblins just now, so that the blade glows dimly?
A bit higher up.

I. What’s up with that last bit?
To quote Celeborn, is a classical Tolkienism:

Quote
Oft it may chance that old wives keep in memory word of things that once were needful for the wise to know.



J. Why are there “twist(s) and a turn or two”?
Rock fortmations?

K. How much of this setting is Tolkien representing from nature, and how much from storytelling traditions?
Hmm... last time, Morthoron asked about spelunking. Having no personal experience of my own to offer, perhaps you should ask him?

L. Why do we imagine “monsters” in darkness?
We don't see them in daylight, do we?

What is such fear based on?
The unknown.

In Lord of the Flies, William Golding discusses this a bit (is it in the third chapter? I can't remember)

M. Are children more vulnerable to such writing (I’m thinking of Monsters Inc. now, right)? Why or why not?
They are more willing to confront their fear.

N. Is this a reference to Gollum, called “slinker” and “old noser” in LotR?
Among others.

If so, isn’t it the shortest foreshadowing on record since he shows up in the next line?
So what? It is effective.

If not, who is Tolkien referring to so specifically?
The Watcher in the Water; but it took a Balrog to drive it out.


I don't feel qualified to answer your next section, and I'll try to come up with a general answer. I'm not sure I accept your initial premise.


"And there we have the first utterings of one of the most unusual villains in literary history. Gollum is both wretched and vicious, he is juvenile, curious and playful as well as sly, malevolent and secretive. We do not understand his motivations, nor why he lives down in the darkness, but we do know he is a murderer."
- Morthoron



The weekly discussion of The Hobbit is back. Join us in the Reading Room for A Short Rest!


Hamfast Gamgee
Gondor

Aug 8 2012, 8:45am

Post #6 of 10 (182 views)
Shortcut
Tobacco, Elven blades and other stuff [In reply to] Can't Post

I pushume that Bilbo is a bit shaken up. But remember he is a hobbit not like us. He recovers quicker. Aas regards the ring falling and Gollum not hearing, well, maybe Gandalf thought this too. Which is why the wizard took to believing other powers were at work.Bilbo is hungry, though may e a full English isn't really what he needs. Scrambled eggs with fruit juice might be healthier for him.
As regards Tobacco well I can only imagine the rumpus if a movie or children's book today would blatantly advertise the stuff! At least Tolkien didn't mention any major Pipe producer of the time name even accidentally. Still of course in the trenches of ww1 the troops smoked under stress so Tolkien would have seen that. Actually it wasn't very wise anyway for Bilbo to smoke. Wouldn't the smoke have alerted the Goblins or other creatures and shown were he was?
Did Elrond notice that Bilbos blade was Elven? I like bats. Sometimes in the summer I sit out in my local pub garden and I see them if I am lucky. Are these the same type of bats that follow the Goblin armies? As regards the last part, I can only think thank Eru Tolkien abandoned that idea! I


Curious
Half-elven


Aug 8 2012, 9:43pm

Post #7 of 10 (143 views)
Shortcut
Thoughts. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
A. Do Bilbo�s feelings on waking, and his recovery of his equilibrium and senses, reflect what happens when you are thrown violently onto a stone surface?

It seems plausible, especially since he wasn't really thrown onto a stone surface, violently or otherwise; he fell.


Quote
B. How did the Ring come to �leave� Gollum (as it is later said in LotR) at this point in the tunnels? Wouldn�t he have heard it hit the stone floor?

I always assumed Gollum was in the middle of strangling a goblin when it happened. That would explain why it happened some distance from his lake, and why he might not have heard it fall.


Quote
C. Why does Bilbo think of a breakfast meal as the answer to a need for �some meal or other�?



Perhaps because he just woke up.


Quote
D. Where else do we see tobacco used in the story?



Famously in chapter one, as Bilbo, Thorin, and Gandalf blow increasingly-impressive smoke rings. Also in chapter two, where Gandalf brings Bilbo's pipe and tobacco. Finally at the end of the story, when Bilbo hands Gandalf the tobacco jar back in Bag End.

Although Gandalf brings Bilbo his pipe and tobacco, and he could have resupplied himself along the way, either no one had time and opportunity to smoke on the adventure or Tolkien did not consider it worth mentioning. I think it is associated with leisure, which is rare on an adventure. In LotR it comes up in the context of leisure, but also is a clue to Saruman's connections with the Shire, so it is important foreshadowing.

Also, in The Hobbit there is no sign that tobacco is peculiar to hobbits. In LotR we learn that smoking tobacco was invented by hobbits, and that the Shire supplies Middle-earth with its pipeweed.


Quote
E. Is it �politically incorrect� for today�s readers that Bilbo smokes with pleasure (or wishes he could, in this case)?


Yes. And if he had written The Hobbit today, Tolkien might have changed that, or critics might have commented on it. But he wrote in a time when smoking was socially accepted.


Quote
F. On a minor note, given the major changes we know are coming, why did Tolkien not later edit this part to change �tobacco� to �pipe weed� as the product is called in LotR?

Tolkien tried to keep his edits to a minimum, I assume. And the use of "tobacco" instead of "pipe weed" is part of the more contemporary tone of The Hobbit. Changing that tone throughout would mean a complete rewrite, which Tolkien once began but quickly abandoned.


Quote
G. Why hasn�t Bilbo thought of or looked at this sword before this? Surely wearing a sword �inside his breeches� is going to be uncomfortable enough that one would take it out for sleeping at least, no?


In Rivendell, Bilbo probably didn't wear his blade at all. When traveling, he might have strapped the sheath to his thigh. Short blades are often strapped to the thigh. I think Bilbo was in the habit of falling asleep in his clothes on this trip, particularly when exhausted.

Quote

H. Where are the goblins just now, so that the blade glows dimly?


As noted, not too far, not too near. The range of the blade is never explained precisely.


Quote
... they know a lot of old sayings!
I. What�s up with that last bit?



Hobbits have a large store of oral wisdom, and Tolkien has great respect for oral wisdom.


Quote
J. Why are there �twist(s) and a turn or two�?



Maybe because it is a mine, and not just a passageway, and the ore directed the tunnel. Or maybe because it is part of a natural system of caverns, expanded by tunneling. Gollum's underground lake suggests the latter.


Quote
Bats �whirr� past his ears, so often that he stops being bothered by it. This just doesn�t ring true to me, given the setting (a long narrow tunnel miles from the outside), but I imagine that when I was a kid and didn�t know any better this just added to the suspense.
K. How much of this setting is Tolkien representing from nature, and how much from storytelling traditions?


These are fantasy bats. Latter they will cover the sky just to provide darkness for goblins. From the Misty Mountains to the Lonely Mountain, the beasts rarely act like beasts, and more often act like people in beast form. Bilbo is lucky these bats don't report him. Perhaps they act as goblin messengers. In the context of The Hobbit, we shouldn't expect the bats to act like bats in the Primary World.


Quote
L. Why do we imagine �monsters� in darkness? What is such fear based on?



Maybe it is based on our dreams? Maybe the darkness just allows our imagination to run wild?


Quote
M. Are children more vulnerable to such writing (I�m thinking of Monsters Inc. now, right)? Why or why not?



Children fear hidden monsters much more than they do cars or guns or other more rational threats, perhaps because it is easier to imagine fictional threats than it is to understand factual threats. Even adults indulge in this behavior, repeating rumors or forwarding emails about imaginary threats while ignoring the danger of driving on the highway or slipping in the bathtub. Perhaps the imaginary threats are more interesting and thrilling than boring threats like slippery floors. Or perhaps because deep down we know they are fictional they are a safe threat, thrilling but not too real. When my children ask for a scary story, they don't want to hear the police report, they want to hear about ghosts and witches and bogie men.


Quote
More specifically, as he encounters the lake, the narrator takes over and assures us that Bilbo is right: �there are other things living unbeknown to [the goblins] that have sneaked in from outside to lie up in the dark.� �the original owners [of the caverns] are still there in odd comers, slinking and nosing about.� (squire�s bolds)
N. Is this a reference to Gollum, called �slinker� and �old noser� in LotR? If so, isn�t it the shortest foreshadowing on record since he shows up in the next line? If not, who is Tolkien referring to so specifically?

It does refer to Gollum, but it's not foreshadowing. Rather, it's a segue, a transition from goblins to Gollum.


Quote
You may comment any way you want � or even better, suggest how Tolkien might have rewritten these words, had he decided to complete the infamous 1960 revision of The Hobbit to place it more in the stylistic world of LotR.

1. Just imagine his fright!
2. neither up nor down it could he find anything
3. gave himself up to complete miserableness,
4. it was high time for some meal or other
5. that only made him miserabler.
6. It was not broken, and that was something.
7. Goodness knows what
8. in slapping all his pockets and feeling all round himself
9. It was rather splendid to be wearing a blade
10. he had noticed that such weapons made a great impression on goblins
11. �Go back?� he thought. �No good at all! Go sideways? Impossible! Go forward? Only thing to do! On we go!�
12. his heart all of a patter and a pitter.
13. Bilbo was in what is called a tight place.
14. it was not quite so tight for him as it would have been for me or for you.
15. I should not have liked to have been in Mr. Baggins� place, all the same.
16. until he was tireder than tired.
17. It seemed like all the way to tomorrow and over it to the days beyond.
18. without any warning he trotted splash into water! Ugh!
19. That pulled him up sharp and short.
20. goodness only knows how many years ago,

Some of these phrases would not appear in LotR because the narrator does not speak to the reader directly -- that includes 1, 14, 15, and 20, as well as the "Ugh!" in number 18. Others would appear in the form of conversation, because throughout most of LotR the hobbits had companions, usually including at least one other hobbit. So one hobbit could say these kinds of things to another, or possibly to one of the other members of the Fellowship. I also think we are more likely to hear an inner dialogue in LotR, vs. the narrator telling us what the character is thinking. Thus, number 11 is actually quite typical of LotR, particularly when Sam is alone. I could see Sam saying many of these phrases, either to himself or to Frodo.


(This post was edited by Curious on Aug 8 2012, 9:46pm)


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 9 2012, 1:55am

Post #8 of 10 (110 views)
Shortcut
Smoking in the trenches/tunnels [In reply to] Can't Post

You're reminded me of Gandalf's "need" for smoke in Moria. I've wondered if that was wise, as the smell could possibly be picked up by the orcs.

It's for the best that Bilbo was not able to smoke in those tunnels.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 9 2012, 2:01am

Post #9 of 10 (159 views)
Shortcut
That does make sense [In reply to] Can't Post

that the Ring would take advantage of that moment of confusion, when Gollum is procuring his "meal", to arrange to slip off in the confusion.

Gollum would have then been busy transporting the goblin to his island, and devouring it there. His attention to eating may have been sufficient distraction for him to not notice the missing Ring. And he would have had no need to even think of worrying about it.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




Modtheow
Lorien


Aug 10 2012, 2:33am

Post #10 of 10 (194 views)
Shortcut
Some thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

I don’t know what a realistic description of being thrown violently onto a stone surface should consist of, but Bilbo does get up slowly, his head “swimming,” and he crawls around for a time before sitting in one place “for a long while.” That seems convincing enough to me to suggest a stunned awakening from a blow. Whether someone would then think of food and tobacco, I have no idea, but Bilbo’s desire for bacon and eggs (he did just wake up, after all) and a smoke is in keeping with his hobbit nature. It’s been a long time since I’ve been around people who smoke, but my parents and many of their generation reached for a cigarette on all occasions – after a meal, in a conversation, before breakfast, driving in the car, etc. (Imagine every scene in the TV show Mad Men, and you get an accurate idea of how it was when I was a child). It seems that Bilbo’s reaction is that same sort of automatic reaching for a smoke at the moment he sits to rest and possibly to think. I can’t imagine that you’d find such a scene written in a children’s book published today.


Surely Bilbo hasn’t been wearing the sword inside his breeches since he first found it! I took this line to mean that in the confusion and fighting with the goblins in the previous chapter, there was no time for Bilbo to think of his own sword, let alone try to use it, especially since Beater and Biter were such a focus of attention. As he is getting less groggy now in the tunnel, he realizes that he has his own sword.

I like the line about hobbits having a fund of wisdom and wise sayings because that proverbial knowledge is something that Tolkien values highly throughout his work. But does Bilbo have any wise sayings to help him in this chapter?

As for Tolkien’s stylistic choices, I can’t make up my mind whether I like them or not. Are words like “tireder” and “miserabler” a way of talking down to children, or making fun of their language? The “Ugh” works well for someone reading the story aloud. I have to admit I enjoy the play with words when putting Bilbo “in a tight place” –the cliché comes first and then it’s explained literally. That list of stylistic choices, though, really makes clear what a firm hand the narrator has in guiding the reader’s reactions.


Glad to be able to pop in for the discussion, though I’ve been missing a lot – hard to find an internet connection on the beach!

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.