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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
Elrond in the movies
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DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 6 2012, 8:55pm

Post #26 of 40 (207 views)
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Eh? / [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Apr 6 2012, 9:03pm

Post #27 of 40 (210 views)
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You understand perfectly well what I wrote. [In reply to] Can't Post

Bombadil was capable of destroying the Ring; it had no hold over him and he had no desire for it. However, he was too 'flighty' (for lack of a better word) to be sent on such a mission.

Now, let's not argue in front of the children.

"Darkness beyond blackest pitch, deeper than the deepest night!
King of Darkness, who shines like gold upon the Sea of Chaos.
I call upon thee and swear myself to thee!
Let the fools who stand before me be destroyed by the power you and I possess!"


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 6 2012, 9:05pm

Post #28 of 40 (212 views)
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But I'm not arguing and [In reply to] Can't Post

you put what I was saying ... just differently Wink


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Apr 6 2012, 9:08pm

Post #29 of 40 (208 views)
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It's a matter of semantics... [In reply to] Can't Post

The words 'could' and 'would' are not interchangable. Hopefully, this ends the matter.

"Darkness beyond blackest pitch, deeper than the deepest night!
King of Darkness, who shines like gold upon the Sea of Chaos.
I call upon thee and swear myself to thee!
Let the fools who stand before me be destroyed by the power you and I possess!"


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 6 2012, 9:13pm

Post #30 of 40 (213 views)
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Ok Otaku-sempai [In reply to] Can't Post

I am well aware of when to use "could" and "would". Shall leave it at that my friend Smile (mainly because I am confused rather than anything else).


imin
Valinor

Apr 6 2012, 9:54pm

Post #31 of 40 (196 views)
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I have always thought [In reply to] Can't Post

elendil and gil-galad 'killed' sauron and isildur effectively just chopped off the ring from saurons hand. But i have read other posts (in other forums etc) which say they think elendil and gil-galad greatly wound/subdue sauron but its isildur who actually kills him.

I think from tolkien's writings people can interpret it either way. i will try looking for the quotes at some time, right now its late.


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 6 2012, 9:59pm

Post #32 of 40 (188 views)
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Letter 131 [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote

Gilgalad and Elendil are slain in the act of slaying Sauron. Isildur, Elendil's son, cuts the ring from Sauron's hand, and his power departs, and his spirit flees into the shadows


But then how does one define "slaying"? To overwelm or to kill?




imin
Valinor

Apr 6 2012, 10:30pm

Post #33 of 40 (192 views)
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yeah exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

I have always took it to be they essentially killed sauron and isildur did the last tiny little bit but then obviously claimed he did more.

But i have read other peoples interpretations of this passage saying they died and sauron was dying but not dead and so it was isildur in the end that killed him.


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 6 2012, 10:33pm

Post #34 of 40 (190 views)
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Yeah, its a tricky one [In reply to] Can't Post

I couldn't find any other substantial passages (did you?). It really depends how you define "slaying". I can see both sides of the arguments


Magpie
Immortal


Apr 6 2012, 10:43pm

Post #35 of 40 (218 views)
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There was a similar discussion on imdb recently [In reply to] Can't Post

about the word 'smote'. Did Gandalf kill the Balrog? It hinges on how one defines smote.

http://www.imdb.com/...board/nest/195865593


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TheGoblinKing
Rohan


Apr 10 2012, 9:46pm

Post #36 of 40 (170 views)
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UM Aren't Elves Weaker Then Men [In reply to] Can't Post

When it comes to the one ring. The Wizards and Elves cannot even touch the ring because they become evil in a second. I realize Galadrial was a witch and all but my point is that I think an Elf when it comes to the ring become more twisted then a Hobbit or Human ever could be. Id say Elrond would have become evil lord Elrond.

The True King Of Mordor


ElendilTheShort
Gondor

Apr 10 2012, 10:14pm

Post #37 of 40 (185 views)
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TheGoblinKing [In reply to] Can't Post

they fear it becasue they have knowledge in the matter and know what can happen. They are exhibiting their wisdom not a weakness by refusing to touch the One Ring. Men are more readily susceptible than elves or wizards and as such men were the easiest of all races for Sauron to corrupt. The dwarves proved resistant and the Hobbits proved to be unexpectadly resistant but to paraphrase Gandalf "There is only one power that knows all about the rings and no power that knows all about Hobbits."

Also Galadriel was not a witch although some held that opinion of her such as the Rohirrim, who Gimli was only too happy to re-educate under the loving blows of his axe, out of respect for the lady Galadriel.


TheGoblinKing
Rohan


Apr 11 2012, 12:43am

Post #38 of 40 (163 views)
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Still Yet [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Elves would be taken quick by the ring like Gollum. I think we don't know if Elrond is any more morally better then Isuildor simple because he neve rhad the ring in his hand or touching his skin. I think its a greater thing that BIlbo a Hobbit can use it like a toy while Gandalf and Elves are affraid to even touch it.

The True King Of Mordor


ElendilTheShort
Gondor

Apr 11 2012, 1:18am

Post #39 of 40 (159 views)
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Bilbo could use [In reply to] Can't Post

it like a toy because he did not know what it was, or indeed what it was capable of during his time as the bearer of the One Ring and he had no desire for power or domination of others, which is the primary purpose of the One Ring "One Ring to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them" literally the intent of Sauron when he forged the One Ring. Whereas the powerful who know what the One Ring is would want to do good with it but it would ultimately turn them to evil ways. I do not have the books with me but Gandalf and Galadriel both specifically say this of themselves.

Gollum started his bearership of the Ring with an evil act, the murder of Deagol. It is not suggested that the Ring made him do anything that he was not inclined to do anyway although the appearance of the Ring is suggested to be a trigger for his action. In complete contrast to this, Bilbo started his bearership of the Ring with mercy. He spared Gollum's life when he (Bilbo) was trying to escape and it would have been much easier for him to stab Gollum instead of leaping over him. Therefore although they are essentially of the same race, due to their inherent nature, one being evil and the other being good, as well as their actions, an evil act as opposed to good act, respectively made it easier or more difficult for the One Ring to exert it's influence over them as individuals.

Elrond is no more appreciably morally superior or more of a "good" person than Isildur. They are both mighty and noble, in the books at least. It is the movies that make it appear that bearing the One Ring or claiming it makes one automatically inclined to evil. In the books this is not the case. The Ring works in assisting a persons actions and they start out thinking they are doing good and it turns them to evil ways eventually, and the time this takes varies on the persons specific stature and the degree to which they were inclined towards good or evil to start with. To this end there is nothing to say that elves or Istari (the wizards) are more susceptible as races to domination by the One Ring than humans, hobbits or dwarves.


(This post was edited by ElendilTheShort on Apr 11 2012, 1:22am)


aruman
Rivendell


Apr 11 2012, 2:48am

Post #40 of 40 (286 views)
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AND... [In reply to] Can't Post

Gollum may have been wicked before the ring, and it can also be argued that he was driven mad by the Ring the first time he laid eyes on it...but Gandalf also stated in the Shadow of the Past chapter of FOTR (I believe) that Gollum proved to be very tough against he Rings will, as their was a small part of his mind that was still his...

In the movies Elrond, Denethor, Haldir, Galadriel, and Celeborn stink.

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