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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The meeting of Gandalf and Thrain. . . I hope we aren't in for an Enormous Anachronism.
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jan 23 2012, 9:10am

Post #26 of 34 (429 views)
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Flashbacks [In reply to] Can't Post

To exposition scenes, were some of the more evocative parts of the LOTR films. Elrond and Isildur, Gandalf and Saruman atop Orthanc, Faramir recounting his vision of Boromir's body on the river, the conversation b/w Boromir and Faramir at Osgiliath, etc. These were all great little bits of cinema.

IMO, the flashbacks are what really sold the LOTR films to a large audience. The sense of depth, the verisimilitude, really got people hooked, and invested in Middle Earth.

Otaki may have some wisdom on this one, whether you mock it or not.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Jan 23 2012, 9:19am)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal

Jan 23 2012, 2:51pm

Post #27 of 34 (398 views)
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Gee, maybe Jackson can use the same solution that Tolkien did. [In reply to] Can't Post


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Otaku-sempai wrote: 2. He didn't know that they belonged to Thorin until after the two met and Gandalf figured out that the dying Dwarf was Thrain, Thorin's father.

How do you intend to explain that in the film?
The notion of Gandalf sitting down with Thorin and saying, "Gee, you remind me of a crazy old dwarf I ran across 90 years ago" doesn't work for me.




It is explained in "An Unexpected Party". Gandalf tells Thorin, "Your father gave me this to give to you; and if I have chosen my own time and way for handing it over, you can hardly blame me, considering the trouble I had to find you. Your father could not remember his own name when he gave me the paper, and he never told me yours; so on the whole I think I ought to be praised and thanked!" This is probably when we would flash back to the dungeons of Dol Guldur.


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Otaku-sempai wrote: 3. Approximately ninety years. Answer given during "An Unexpected Party".

The audience is going to wonder why in the heck it took Gandalf NINETY YEARS to track down Thorin.


And they would get the explanation above.



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Otaku-sempai wrote: 4. He didn't. Thorin spotted Gandalf at an inn in Bree (the Prancing Pony?) and approached the Wizard to introduce himself. This can be shown in flashback.

A flashback to an exposition scene? Gee, sounds exciting. Wink



It is generally considered better to show than to tell in cinema; hence, a flashback.


All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost.


(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jan 23 2012, 2:55pm)


Black Breathalizer
Rohan


Jan 23 2012, 3:34pm

Post #28 of 34 (374 views)
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flashbacks [In reply to] Can't Post

You may well be right on #2 and #3. We'll have to wait and see.

I still disagree with your idea of a flashback to Bree in #4.

Otaku-sempai wrote: It is generally considered better to show than to tell in cinema; hence, a flashback.

While I agree with the technique of using flashbacks (and PJ has used them well), I don't think this exchange would qualify. Flashbacks have been used in the films to give the audience a history lesson, to show an exciting scene (e.g. Gandalf's imprisonment) or to further a love story. But I don't see Gandalf's meeting with Thorin at an inn as significant enough to warrant the screen time.

On the other hand, if the filmmakers come up with a different way for the two to first meet (Tolkien's Bree scenario was actually the second of two scenarios he developed) then it might work.

Again, you could be right but for me, a flashback to Bree would seem to take away from the flow of the important exposition that has to take place at BagEnd at the beginning of the movie.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal

Jan 23 2012, 7:19pm

Post #29 of 34 (365 views)
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The only variant that I'm aware of is in 'Unfinished Tales' [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
On the other hand, if the filmmakers come up with a different way for the two to first meet (Tolkien's Bree scenario was actually the second of two scenarios he developed) then it might work.



"The Quest of Erebor" in Unfinished Tales is almost identical to the account in the Appendices except that, 1) it is presented in the first person from Gandalf's viewpoint, and 2) Gandalf and Thorin meet on the road on the way to Bree. Granted, Jackson could reimagine the sequence so that (for example) either the Dwarf or the Wizard is attacked on the road by bandits or somesuch and the other comes to his aid.

That the audience sees the meeting is really non-essential, if it is included at all, I think that the story might be shown after the company reaches Rivendell. Elrond pulls Gandalf aside for a private conversation and one of the first things he asks is: How has Mithrandir gotten himself mixed up with a party of Dwarves and a Hobbit in a treasure hunt? Queue flashback!

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost.


Black Breathalizer
Rohan


Jan 23 2012, 9:32pm

Post #30 of 34 (339 views)
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flashbacks [In reply to] Can't Post

Otaku-sempai wrote: Jackson could reimagine the sequence so that (for example) either the Dwarf or the Wizard is attacked on the road by bandits or somesuch and the other comes to his aid. ...

the story might be shown after the company reaches Rivendell. Elrond pulls Gandalf aside for a private conversation and one of the first things he asks is: How has Mithrandir gotten himself mixed up with a party of Dwarves and a Hobbit in a treasure hunt? Queue flashback!


I like BOTH of your ideas!!!! <thumb's up>

If the screenwriters use them, Otaku, I'm all for another flashback. Smile




Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jan 24 2012, 5:54am

Post #31 of 34 (318 views)
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Or [In reply to] Can't Post

The flashback could start with Gandalf, sitting in the Prancing Pony common room smoking his pipe (I imagine similarly shot to Aragorn's introduction - iconic and evocative). The door then flies open, and a bedraggled and wild-eyed Thorin strides in. Gandalf, seeing Thorin's face in profile, immediately recognizes the family resemblance to Thrain, and approaches Thorin. "I have seen your father" Gandalf says with great intensity, without bothering to confirm it. He simply knows. And Thorin immediately recognizes that Gandalf is not mistaken.

Lots of dramatic tension there, without the invented fight scene.

I fear a "generic bandits attack" would seem a bit contrived. Plus, at that point in history, Breeland was a rather safe and idyllic spot. It really wasn't until later, during the time frame of FOTR, that bandits started making trouble.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Jan 24 2012, 5:55am)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal

Jan 24 2012, 1:05pm

Post #32 of 34 (301 views)
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I really don't favor the bandit/Orc encounter... [In reply to] Can't Post

It was just one example of how a different approach could be taken, since a canonical approach could (as you pointed out) seem a little dry. It could even include a bit of humor; neither Gandalf nor Thorin Oakenshield would probably need any real assistance if he were accosted by a few robbers.

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 25 2012, 6:14am

Post #33 of 34 (264 views)
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Very interesting possibility. [In reply to] Can't Post

And one I think would work rather well.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 25 2012, 6:15am

Post #34 of 34 (378 views)
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I very much hope this is the case. [In reply to] Can't Post

You make a good point on the out of sequence shots, as did Redgiraffe.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

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