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Gaffer
The Shire
Jun 2 2011, 9:35pm
Post #26 of 33
(363 views)
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This should be required reading material for anybody who wishes to participate in any further Legolas discussions on TORN. 
----------------------------------------------------
Give a man a fire, and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
--Solid Jackson-- (from Terry Pratchett's "Jingo")
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LordMaximus
Rivendell
Jun 2 2011, 10:58pm
Post #27 of 33
(349 views)
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I totally forgot that the elves spoke to trees, and surely Legolas must have encoutered the death of a tree.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jun 3 2011, 9:13am
Post #28 of 33
(333 views)
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It never seases to amaze me about these Legolios posts....Maybe only Aragorn killed off more Bad dudes...In Helm's Deep the competition between Gimli and Him was a really Fun addition that was in JRRT's original writings. It was never my understanding that LegMAN was an innocent Virgin, when it came to the subject of DEATH!
Even after he takes down an entire Marmakule with about 30 Hardadrum on-board, and Cocks his head...Gimli called "That's just one?"
In Helm's Deep his count was 42?
At Amon Sul, his Rapid-Fire Arrows was one of Cinema's greatest shots (at least for me?) Then when HE is kicked someSeriuos Warg Butt and saving Gimli on DeerPark Heights on the South Island.......it was always a kinda, "Been there, Done That Moment" Always he walks away without a scatch...
If it wasn't for the fact? that we had so many Heros in the Movies...(my personal Favorite was Sam)...you could start a FantastyFranchise just about LeggyMAN!
"There is SEEa-Change in Cinema, I feel it in the Air, I feel it in the Water"...xoxoOB
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taekotemple
Grey Havens
Jun 4 2011, 5:53am
Post #29 of 33
(321 views)
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It's weird that my main interest in counseling is grief therapy & I haven't responded yet.
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Grief is a weird thing. It's weird because when someone dies, we lose them forever, but we also don't because we remember them. I think I remember reading something once that said something to the extent of "nobody really dies until the last person who remembers them dies."
I really appreciated Legolas' reaction to Gandalf's death as done in Fellowship because I remember being a child and not quite getting what death is (I was still telling kids that my dad was in the hospital a year after he died because I still hadn't understood what happened at the age of 4), and that was how Orlando explained the way he framed his reaction on film. I think you're very right, though, Symblemine, Legolas potentially being in the battle of five armies does really contradict it.
But a part of me thinks about it this way (and anyone, please correct me if my info is off): The Istari are supposed to be immortal like the elves, so the death of someone like Gandalf would be a much stranger and unexpected thing compared to someone more mortal. I don't recall any big reaction shot of Legolas regarding Boromir's death, so I'm not so sure if his reaction was the same or not. I'm sure, too, that it would be a bigger shock to Legolas if an elf dies because of the same immortaliy concept.
I like to think of it more in the terms of what I know of the grief reaction. Shock is a really normal reaction to grief. While I'm sure everyone in the fellowship was shocked by what happened, they shifted to sorrow and anger as a reaction faster than Legolas did. It makes me wonder if that's just part of who Legolas is as an elf. Would an elf, who is much more long lived than we are as humans, go to emotion as quickly as someone who hasn't lived very long, like us? Elves may, when younger, be more quick to emote, but as time goes by, do they go to the emotional reaction more quickly or to the place of trying to logic it out? Maybe Legolas, in his shock, is trying to make sense of it, rather than immediately going into the emotional side of grief. Maybe the shock for Legolas is the circumstances under which Gandalf's death took place instead of the fact that he actually died. Maybe he's trying to think of all the ways he could possibly not be dead and still get out of that situation (maybe he's in the denial phase of grief?)
I can't say if the explanation of Orlando's motivation behind how he played that part completely works (especially considering his possible participation in battle in The Hobbit), but, on screen, it creates an interesting parallel between his reaction and others. There are definitely going to be some big differences in how an immortal views death in comparison to someone who is mortal. Maybe Legolas is partially hopeful, because he's aware that immortality may afford Gandalf a chance to survive? I don't know.
I honestly have no idea how they'd make this all work. But I do know that grief is very complex and everyone has a certain way of going through it. Even with the stages of grief, nobody just goes through it exactly chronologically, and sometimes people even go through the same stage multiple times. It's funny, with all the deaths I've had to deal with in my life (by the time I was 16, I averaged out that I'd lost one family member for every two years of my life), I know my reaction to death so well, it's predictable, but knowing it doesn't change the fact that I still react in very much the same way. This makes me wonder about Orlando's choice in his portrayal of Legolas at this point, as his father died when he was a young child (of course, it turned out the man he was raised to believe was his father was actually not his biological father, who is still alive), so maybe it was him using method acting to create a unique reaction in Legolas in comparison to the other characters, to just help it stand out more that Legolas is from a very different race and culture.
I'm going to have to think about this so much more, because I'm not really sure how to make sense of all of this, but then death doesn't ever really make much sense anyway.
And your English is excellent! You should hear my try to speak Spanish. I end up sounding like I'm speaking quazi-Italian and end up switching to French by accident. Maybe I should just take up Esperanto and see if that works.
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Maiarmike
Grey Havens
Jun 4 2011, 9:11am
Post #30 of 33
(296 views)
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It's strange how that works, but when someone dies they remain in your sub-conscious and decide to visit once in a while. I always dream about family members that have passed, and that's probably the most comforting thing for me. Legolas is quite the enigmatic elf of Middle-Earth, I think that he is definitely a warrior who has seen many battles, but at the same time the death of his friends is quite difficult. Of course the death of Gandalf, a sort of god-like being, was a shock for everyone, which is why Legolas reacted the way he did. It's interesting what you say about the psychology behind the reason he may have decided to play Legolas. Some actors do take parts because they remind them of themselves. I know Mel Gibson is one of those actors, his character Martin Riggs in Lethal Weapon is essentially him, in a way.
"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien
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PattyJB
Rivendell
Jun 4 2011, 6:15pm
Post #32 of 33
(285 views)
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Maybe the new experience for Legolas was the Balrog.
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taekotemple, you have given us a very insightful look at grief, which really got me thinking about Legolas' response to Gandalf's death. Perhaps he was more and/or differently grieved because he did nothing to stop the Balrog. He was afraid of it and froze, both because of how fearsome it was, and because he had no idea they still existed. He also seems very subdued when he is questioned by Galadriel & Celeborn. To me, it seems possible that Legolas could both be a battle-hardened, or at least experienced warrior, from the Battle of Five Armies and/or the ongoing, endless struggle in Mirkwood and also realize, following the revelation of the Balrog, that there were things he had not known or understood before. Basically, his horizons expanded as he realized the nature of the enemies they were facing.
To me, Legolas seemed sad when Boromir died, but death fighting orcs and uruks was something he was acquainted with. He seemed unmoored by Gandalf's death, both because a wizard was not supposed to die and because he was killed by a creature of nightmare, another Maiar form that was not supposed to still exist.
And RoseCotton, I must pipe in, just for the record, Orlando did not go to "film school"; he went to the Guildhall School of Music and Drama.
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RoseCotton
Lorien
Jun 5 2011, 6:42am
Post #33 of 33
(481 views)
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I used that term because, if memory serves, in one of the documentaries accompanying EE FOTR (I think), Liv Tyler describes Bloom as being 'straight out of film-school' (or similar) when he was cast as Legolas. Knowing almost nothing about the workings of actor training and education in general, let alone about Bloom's in particular, I just went along with what I believe I've heard her say.
However, I don't think that the inaccuracy of the term detracts from the point that Bloom was offered an usually substantial role for any actor, particularly one so early in their career. He may not have pondered too much on the whys and wherefores of his empathy with the character's background before agreeing to accept such an opportunity.
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