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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Visions Of Scenes In "The Hobbit" ?

DiveTwin
Rohan

Aug 1 2007, 10:12pm

Post #1 of 24 (1456 views)
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Visions Of Scenes In "The Hobbit" ? Can't Post

I was wondering how many of you had thoughts about "The Hobbit" and what scenes you feel "need" to be in the film, at least in the way you imagine it.

I can't get the thought out of my head of how nicely "The Hobbit" can tie into "Lord Of The Rings" using Bilbo singing "The Road Goes Ever On And On". To me, I just start to sink into "Fellowship" when you hear Gandalf starting to hum, then sing that song. Great warm moment that sucks you into the movie.

So when I think of "The Hobbit" I"m hoping they maybe dub the song (with Bilbo's voice) as he and Gandalf head back to Hobbiton at the end with the song ending right when Bilbo arrives back at the Shire. Then everytime you pop in "Fellowship" and hear the song, you'd think back to "The Hobbit" and just instantly brings your mentally back to Middle Earth. Plus those that never read the books would then understand where the song came from as they hear Gandalf beginning the tune.

Also hoping the "backstories" will get fleshed out more - such as why Gandalf kept leaving the party to attend to other matters (driving Sauron/Necromancer out of Dol Guldor), telling why Sauron was there in the first place (rumors of the lost ring somewhere near the southern Mirkwood area?), more background on the Wizards Council (maybe introduce Radagast?), the Rangers who have been protecting the area for years, etc.. And if Peter Jackson gets to make this movie, then I'm certain all this will be addressed - and appropriately.

Let's also hope the recent comments and "quiet" end up being a positive thing regarding Jackson's chances of making "The Hobbit".

Anybody else with ideas they just "gotta see"?


Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea

Aug 2 2007, 4:07am

Post #2 of 24 (873 views)
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Assuming there'll be 2 movies... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's been said 2 movies are planned, and assuming they do a long, extended Hobbit, instead of The Hobbit + LotR prequel, here is what I think:

-A prologue for the first movie, in which we see Smaug's attack on Erebor, the escape of Thorin's father and the ruin of the Kingdom. What do we see? Just fire and shadows. No actual Smaug.

-Smaug should be introduced until the second movie, when Bilbo sees him for the first time. The scene should look EXACTLY as John Howe's painting of Smaug sleeping over the treasure.

-The White Council and the attack on Dol Guldur. Saruman and Galadriel, if not Arwen, make an appearance.

-Riddles in the Dark should be a memorable scene...

-Legolas in Thranduil's Halls. Not that it is necessary, but let's face it, if Peter Jackson does it, we will see it.

-A HUGE Battle of the Five Armies.

-No talking animals. Just implied, not see them talking on screen, except probably Beorn.

I can think of those right now.


Voorhas
Lorien


Aug 2 2007, 4:39am

Post #3 of 24 (825 views)
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Great Goblin [In reply to] Can't Post

"Who are these miserable persons?"

Always a favorite scene.

"They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." -- E.A. Poe


FarFromHome
Valinor


Aug 2 2007, 8:33am

Post #4 of 24 (795 views)
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I want to see the Shire again [In reply to] Can't Post

I was just watching some LotR making-of extras yesterday, and it struck me that the location of the Shire would need a lot of work to be brought back to life for The Hobbit. But I'd love to see it looking exactly the same as in LotR - the whole point of a place like the Shire being that it doesn't change. And Bag End too - I'd like to see it before Bilbo's adventures. Was he already messy and obsessed with books and maps, or did his interest in history and geography mainly come from having his eyes opened on his travels?

The scene with the dwarves arriving at Bag End should certainly set the tone for the whole movie, and I'm already starting to feel excited about seeing it!

...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.


orcbane
Gondor


Aug 2 2007, 10:46am

Post #5 of 24 (794 views)
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Dwarve Fugue [In reply to] Can't Post

I would like to see the Dwarves singing that song in the dark at bag End about the Lonely mountain.

Struck by Lightning!


Idril Celebrindal
Tol Eressea


Aug 3 2007, 2:50pm

Post #6 of 24 (815 views)
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Spiders, Mr. Bilbo! Zillions of 'em! [In reply to] Can't Post

Weirdly enough, I'm looking forward to seeing Bilbo's fight with the giant spiders. I liked that episode in the book because Bilbo really comes into his own and shows his bravery, cleverness and initiative in rescuing the Dwarves.

A cameo of Legolas in Thraduil's hall or the Battle of 5 Armies might be OK, but not a speaking part. He really isn't part of the story of the Hobbit and his presence would be distracting.

As for Beorn, let's hope that PJ will NOT make him into a Hagrid-like warm and fuzzy buffoon! Beorn should be very bear-like: tough, gruff and intimidating. It's only when Bilbo gets to know Beorn that he shows his kindlier side.

Personally, I would like to keep the backstory of the Necromancer and the White Council to a minimum. We need to know enough about it to explain Gandalf's absence, but too much of it would distract from Bilbo's adventures.

And let's not forget the three trolls! This will be a fun scene.

With caffeine, all things are possible.

The pity of Bilbo will screw up the fate of many.

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Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea

Aug 4 2007, 7:44pm

Post #7 of 24 (787 views)
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So I've been giving a little more thought to this... [In reply to] Can't Post

And I'm still assuming there'll be two movies. I want to elaborate a little on the first minutes of the first movie.

The first image is Lonely Mountain at night. Then we come in and see a feast the King under the Mountain is hosting. We get to see all the majesty of both the King and the Kingdom of Erebor. Suddenly, there's screaming by the sentinels, and we start seeing fire, terrible noises of wings flapping are in the air... the warriors take their weapons to face the threat but never come back, dead by the fire of the beast. After some chaotic scenes we see a group of dwarves walking in the open, with the smoking silhouette of Lonely Mountain behind.

The title comes on... The Hobbit.

Perhaps the track Concerning Hobbits comes in very lightly in the background.

Gandalf, in voice off, starts speaking the classic lines of the beginning of the book, not all the chapter, but a nice selection that could be done to introduce the movie:

We'll take a kind of tour of Bag End, the camera moving as if it were the spectator who just entered the place.

"In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort."

From then on, Gandalf continues:

"This hobbit was a very well-to-do hobbit, and his name was Baggins. The Bagginses have lived in the neighbourhood of The Hill for time out of mind, and people considered them very respectable, not only because most of them were rich, but also because they never had any adventures or did anything unexpected. This is a story of how a Baggins had an adventure, and found himself doing and saying things altogether unexpected. he may have lost the neighbours' respect, but he gained -- well, you will see whether he gained anything in the end."

Voice off ends, we see a shot of Gandalf near Bag End, and Bilbo says: Good morning!

That's what I thought so far.

The rest of the flashback of the destruction of Erebor could be told later by either Gandalf or Thorin, depending on the effect and storytelling decisions they make.

If they actually go with the two movie idea, I believe the sequence for the end of the first one should be: Gandalf leaves them in the verge of Mirkwood, and we know nothing of him until the second movie. All the action in Mirkwood happens, and the last shot of the first movie is Bilbo clinging to the barrell and seeing the Lonely Mountain from afar.

It's a little beyond the half of the book. But I think it would work, given the amount of action that happens afterwards.

Second movie begins with Gandalf, showing us where he went, probably the last decision of the White Council to attack Dol Guldur and the march of whatever army they assembled towards the site of the battle.

The dwarves arrive to Esgaroth, and once they decide to leave, we have a new update on the White Council story, then on, all focuses on Bilbo and the dwarves, the story goes as it is in the book, with a remarkable Battle in the End. the outcome of the Battle at Dol Guldur is seen in a flashback when Bilbo asks Gandalf where he was when he left them, in the fashion of Gandalf's flashback in the Fellowship, where we see it, although he only tells Frodo he "was delayed".

With the right dialogue it's a nice prelude to the Lord of the Rings.

Second movie ends with Bilbo arriving to Bag End, probably eliminating the Sackville-Bagginses problem, for similar reasons for which they eliminated the Scouring of the Shire.

I only have one problem. If there are two movies, how would they call them? One obvious choice is There and Back Again, but which of the two? And how to call the other one?

Things get uglier if they decide to go with The Hobbit + Prequel... How do you assemble a coherent 3 hour story out of the appendices, apart from doing it just about Aragorn's (Thorondor's) adventures, which presents a problem, given the 17 years that were eliminated from the movies' timeline. How would you call it?

Maybe I'm being too picky, but anyway... What do you think?


Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea

Aug 4 2007, 8:18pm

Post #8 of 24 (759 views)
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About Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry, I just forgot to re-write the thing about Samug's introduction: we never see Smaug in the prologue or the flashbacks, we get to see Smaug for the first time when Bilbo first sees him, sleeping on the treasure, like John Howe's painting. I think that scene would have to be very important. One cannot overstate Smaug. The reason of not seeing him earlier? Let the spectator be marvelled the same as Bilbo, at the same time as Bilbo.


squire
Valinor


Aug 5 2007, 4:25am

Post #9 of 24 (809 views)
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I think the approach should be very Hobbit-oriented - and perhaps Tolkien-oriented (like Princess Bride) [In reply to] Can't Post

I would like to see the opening shot of Prof. Tolkien, finishing a lecture and riding his bicycle back home from Oxford, gown flying behind him in the best Mr. Chips fashion. Soon he is putting his boys to bed, but first a bedtime story...

His narration fades into the opening passage from The Hobbit, and the scene fades to Bilbo, outside Bag End; Gandalf walks up, etc. But Tolkien's voice is established as the voiceover, and it provides the transitions and abbreviations needed to achieve a one-movie story.

I would eliminate all LotR-oriented backstory. Let The Hobbit be The Hobbit! As Bob Shaye might put it (and he was right the first time, after all): it's one book - shouldn't it be one movie?

Scenes that need to be in the movie: Unexpected Party. Trolls. Rivendell: Moonletters on map. Goblins blasted by Gandalf. Riddle Game. No need for Beorn, really. Mirkwood: Famine on the trail, Spiders, Elf-revels. Bilbo rescues the dwarves via barrel. Laketown arrival. Interview with Smaug. Destruction of Laketown. Parley at the gate. Bilbo sneaks out with Arkenstone. Battle of Five Armies underplayed: focus on Bilbo's mock-heroic unconsciousness. Death of Thorin. Bag End auction. Final visit of Gandalf.

At the end, as Bilbo passes the tobacco, we hear "he remained very happy to the end of his days". We fade back to Oxford. See Tolkien leaving his sleeping children, going to his study, and finishing the manuscript.

At a publication party (imagined - probably wasn't one - but why not? And throw C. S. Lewis in, just for giggles) Stanley Unwin mentions, "We're very much hoping you can write some more about hobbits..." Tolkien looks shocked, then thoughtful - close up on his face - Cut to the opening footage (from Fellowship) of Gandalf riding into the Shire on his cart -

End of movie.




squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


FarFromHome
Valinor


Aug 5 2007, 9:43am

Post #10 of 24 (717 views)
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Brilliant idea [In reply to] Can't Post

Especially the Tolkien-as-narrator bit. (Although Tolkien himself obviously wanted to claim that Bilbo was his own narrator - and an unreliable one at that!)

Like you, I'd prefer to see a children's story version of The Hobbit, with just hints of the wider story showing through as they do in the book.

However, I'd also like to see a version of the same story from the grownups' perpective, with all the politics and planning that was going on behind the scenes. I wonder if you could make a second movie that told this other story with just enough glimpses of the children's story to put the whole thing into a different and darker perspective?

...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.


Loresilme
Valinor


Aug 5 2007, 1:27pm

Post #11 of 24 (752 views)
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Smaug is the key [In reply to] Can't Post

from a movie perspective. He's got to be awesome, gorgeous, fascinating, evil but with enough complexity and beauty and reality that you feel a twinge of sorrow when he is destroyed. And I agree, we shouldn't see him until Bilbo does, and so it must be worth the wait.

I would prefer not having a 'recognizable' voice to play Smaug. There are many talented theatre actors out there with outstanding, resonant and commanding voices who would be better than a 'known' voice that would detract from the illusion.

Please, but please though, I hope they choose someone with a naturally deep, ringing, resonant, clear voice. Not someone who has to lower their pitch unnaturally and ends up sounding like a throaty, gravelly, mumbling mess. I had enough of needing subtitles in LOTR.


Elizabeth
Valinor


Aug 5 2007, 8:18pm

Post #12 of 24 (707 views)
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Hmm. [In reply to] Can't Post

James Cromwell as Tolkien? That would be brilliant.




Son of Elizabeth in Frodo's tree
March, 2007


Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'


squire
Valinor


Aug 6 2007, 12:32am

Post #13 of 24 (680 views)
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How cool! [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember him as Philip in The Queen - he was fine in a strong supporting role, and that shows he can do an Englishman of Tolkien's sort.

Wouldn't that be wonderful!

But I just doubt that Hollywood will see a "Tolkien-contextual" Hobbit as meaningful. Though I think it would be great to see the Hobbit movie done ostensibly as an children's story with this framing device, becoming as adult as it does by the end, with a smooth transition to the existing LotR films that have no framing device (unless you count Galadriel's/Bilbo's voice-overs).



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


FarFromHome
Valinor


Aug 6 2007, 8:25am

Post #14 of 24 (690 views)
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Dunno [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
But I just doubt that Hollywood will see a "Tolkien-contextual" Hobbit as meaningful.


Anyone who's watched the EEs of the LotR movies (and that's a lot of potential Hobbit customers) will be familiar with Tolkien, and indeed used to the idea of Tolkien himself as a framing device, since each of the three sets of extras starts with an item on the relevant parts of Tolkien's life.

And anyway, I don't think it's Hollywood's view that will matter most. As I see it, the uncertainty we're in the midst of now is a result of Peter Jackson demonstrating to Hollywood that he doesn't have to do it their way. The original deal, in which The Hobbit would have become part of a legal settlement, I assume would have meant that "Hollywood" would have had the final say. I suspect that Jackson is in the process of making sure that any deal he gets will leave him in creative control. He and his screenwriting partners may or may not go for the Tolkien-as-narrator approach, but if they get The Hobbit at all, I think it will be their choice. And judging by how they chose to begin the EE material, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility.


...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Aug 6 2007, 11:29pm

Post #15 of 24 (677 views)
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Not much to work with for an alternate version. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
However, I'd also like to see a version of the same story from the grownups' perpective, with all the politics and planning that was going on behind the scenes. I wonder if you could make a second movie that told this other story with just enough glimpses of the children's story to put the whole thing into a different and darker perspective?



For me, that politics and planning, in Tolkien's three of four versions of "The Quest of Erebor", is far poorer than the rich children's story that is The Hobbit: he never treated the alternate version in more than sketch form --just a few meetings between Gandalf and the Dwarves before story opens-- which means the filmmakers would have to invent a lot.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Discuss The Children of Húrin in the Reading Room, June 11-October 14.


FarFromHome
Valinor


Aug 7 2007, 8:48pm

Post #16 of 24 (700 views)
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Well if Tolkien could reconstruct [In reply to] Can't Post

the history of Finn and Hengest from the mentions in Beowulf and a few other fragments, then maybe Jackson & co can do the same for the 'history' of the Necromancer, the White Council, and the Quest of Erebor based on the mentions in The Hobbit and LotR, and whatever other fragments may exist in HoME.

...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.


orcbane
Gondor


Aug 8 2007, 1:06am

Post #17 of 24 (787 views)
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Spiders and Legolas revisited [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Quote
Weirdly enough, I'm looking forward to seeing Bilbo's fight with the giant spiders. I liked that episode in the book because Bilbo really comes into his own and shows his bravery, cleverness and initiative in rescuing the Dwarves.

A cameo of Legolas in Thraduil's hall or the Battle of 5 Armies might be OK, but not a speaking part. He really isn't part of the story of the Hobbit and his presence would be distracting.


Me too on the spiders. In truth, I was very disappointed with the Shelob sequence. I am hoping the Battle with Spiders is approached quite differently and think it could be very interestingly done. I do not know how the beginning could be, but have a mental picture of a changed ending. Instead of ending with the company reaching a clearing (possibly elve enchanted), I could see the Mirkwood elves coming to the rescue when the spider attack is at its height. I imagine a almost Star Wars type battle then occuring in and below the trees, all very fast & furious.

When the spiders flee, I see the helmeted captain of the elvish troop, dropping to the ground and confronting the Dwarves. Removing his helmet, Legolas takes them all prisoner. And a cameo for him too at the Battle of 5. But I would give him a few lines and add some foreshadowing elements perhaps.

Dreaming of course, but nows the time.



N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Aug 8 2007, 4:14am

Post #18 of 24 (649 views)
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Fair enough. [In reply to] Can't Post

A clever parallel.

Also, in correction to my post above: for "three of four", read "three or four".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Discuss The Children of Húrin in the Reading Room, June 11-October 14.


Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea

Aug 8 2007, 8:59pm

Post #19 of 24 (677 views)
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I quite like it! [In reply to] Can't Post

The most clever way I have read they could introduce Legolas. I do think it should be very much in the tone of the existing trilogy, for it to be not a stand-alone work, but rather a part of the "saga".

Just a as a comment, Ionce read that the Quest for Erebor accounts were out of the question for the movie, because those are still owned by the Tolkien Estate. As far as I know, what they could use are only those things that are included in the Appendices of the Return of the King, which is in my opinion, enough to do the parallel storyline.


squire
Valinor


Aug 9 2007, 3:08am

Post #20 of 24 (677 views)
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Doesn't that change the point of the scene? [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo saves the dwarves from the spiders - he doesn't need outside help. He is the Dwarves' leader and hero for the first time. For the Elves to "rescue" Thorin's company fuzzes that crucial point.

Furthermore, the Elves are meant to be mysterious, and later turn out to be quite selfishly concerned only for their own way of life in the forest. While they don't mistreat the Dwarves in prison the way the goblins do, the Elves certainly wouldn't extend themselves (in armor!) to save Thorin & Co from spiders when they had just had to abandon one of their revels to avoid meeting them. It's enough of a stretch in the book when they round the starving Dwarves up and bring them in - notice how quickly Tolkien skips over the details of that moment.

In your scenario, the Dwarves would owe an explicit debt of gratitude to the Elven King, making Thorin's refusal to talk look rather dishonorable, rather than the result of the mutual misunderstanding of motives that Tolkien wrote.

And all for a Legolas appearance! I'm sure a Hobbit movie will make enough changes and cuts just to fit the existing story to the screen. Why invent further problems to include an accessory storyline that didn't even exist when this story was first imagined? Let The Hobbit be The Hobbit, with all its own charm and sophistication, not merely a "prequel" (ugly word) to LotR!



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


orcbane
Gondor


Aug 9 2007, 9:20pm

Post #21 of 24 (684 views)
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daddy long-legs [In reply to] Can't Post

Thankyou. I sorta liked the image of arrows & spider threads crisscrossing in the air. And the 3rd spider must tell Bilbo he is his father.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Jan 22 2010, 2:51am

Post #22 of 24 (580 views)
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Excellent points. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 22 2010, 3:14am

Post #23 of 24 (563 views)
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Why Not [In reply to] Can't Post

He takes off his helmet and it is JD alias Captain Jack Sparrow.

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.


Eruonen
Tol Eressea


Oct 19 2010, 7:06pm

Post #24 of 24 (668 views)
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World of Warcraft Cataclysm....hmm, similarities? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.walyou.com/blog/2010/10/19/blizzard-causes-cataclysm-in-the-world-of-warcraft-new-intro-unveiled/

Metallic dragon incinerating a lake town.....

 
 

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