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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The story is not a tragedy but there are some tragic elements to it

DrDeath153
Lorien

Mar 23 2011, 12:06pm


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The story is not a tragedy but there are some tragic elements to it [In reply to] Can't Post

As fantastically written as the whole arc of Thorin's character is, and as heartbreaking as his fall and fate comes across, he is ultimately a supporting character in the story. The significance ultimately does not lie with what happens to him but rather the effect of it on Bilbo. That's not to say that our sympathies should always lie with Bilbo- in fact it is the crux of his development as a character that he should for a time be reviled by the dwarves; the people he has tried so hard to gain the approval of (and thus the audience too) but the dwarves ultimately represent an outdated mode of heroism and so it is Bilbo's reinterpretation of that code (having been educated in it during his journeys with them) that marks his full development, not as some poor copy or groupie to the dwarven way of life, but as an individual, made truly wise through sound judgement of all the lessons he has learnt without being bound to self-destruction adhering to one single mode.

Anyway, back to the tragedy of Thorin. Yes, it is tragic, and i think it should be played as being tragic. I wouldn't go as far as Macfalk's "dies slowly in agony knowing that not only is he about to die, he has also lost everything. His little confort is to have a last few farewell conversation with Bilbo." For a start, Thorin hasn't lost everything, he's gained more than he ever thought possible- he became King Under the Mountain once more! The tragedy is how he didn't get to enjoy that success; that he allowed himself to be defined by the trappings of Kingship and not the actions of it and so surrendered wisdom for pride.

There has been some suggestion that to portray a sympathetic Thorin, Peter Jackson will have to alter the book, incorporate deeper motivations and more shades of grey than feature in the book, like he did with Boromir (though in many ways Thorin has more in common with Theoden, particularly the film's version), but that's simply rubbish- all the stuff needed for a sympathetic Thorin is there in the book, and indeed as hobbitftw shows, i think many people see the pathos of the character and empathise with him right from the first reading, you just can't identify what makes him so based on his actions alone- a synoptic analysis of the character renders him in a very dim light, but it is how Tolkien has him appear through dialogue and prose that shows him in his true light. The Thorin as written is as complex and as ambiguous a character as any in written fiction or cinema today and so hopefully that will translate onto screen rather than taking the grand misconception that Tolkien writes two-dimensional characters. If he can do that without making Thorin overpower Bilbo in the film then he will have obtained true cinematic genius.

Dr Death

Subject User Time
Heart Wrenching story i think more than the Trilogy.What about you.???(spoilers) thehobbitftw Send a private message to thehobbitftw Mar 22 2011, 8:20am
    I Can;t belive no omne has replid yet.////! thehobbitftw Send a private message to thehobbitftw Mar 22 2011, 11:15am
        THE hobbit thehobbitftw Send a private message to thehobbitftw Mar 22 2011, 11:30am
        You must have patience Padawan many have been resting. Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Mar 22 2011, 11:32am
            I Just wanted to share those heart wrenching moments that surpass the trilogy thehobbitftw Send a private message to thehobbitftw Mar 22 2011, 11:38am
                I genrally think thehobbitftw Send a private message to thehobbitftw Mar 22 2011, 11:51am
        Heart-rending flodwyns Send a private message to flodwyns Mar 22 2011, 3:39pm
    I can't say I'm with you at all on that Lindele Send a private message to Lindele Mar 22 2011, 2:16pm
        Disagreed, Lindele. macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Mar 22 2011, 2:48pm
            I agree Labrynian Rebel Send a private message to Labrynian Rebel Mar 22 2011, 2:55pm
                Well..... dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Mar 22 2011, 3:05pm
                Yeah, The Hobbit has a more personal touch: macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Mar 22 2011, 3:06pm
                    Thorins death is probably the most unemotional deathscene ever... painjoiker Send a private message to painjoiker Mar 22 2011, 3:36pm
                        hahaha, Lindele Send a private message to Lindele Mar 22 2011, 3:41pm
                            Yes You are correct.lol thehobbitftw Send a private message to thehobbitftw Mar 22 2011, 3:44pm
                                Childrens' stories Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Mar 22 2011, 8:14pm
                            Lindele macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Mar 22 2011, 3:49pm
                                I have no problem Lindele Send a private message to Lindele Mar 22 2011, 4:00pm
                                    Gandalf didn't die // macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Mar 22 2011, 4:01pm
                                        come on, give me a break Lindele Send a private message to Lindele Mar 22 2011, 4:17pm
                                        'Scuse me? AlatarVinyamar Send a private message to AlatarVinyamar Mar 22 2011, 5:37pm
                                            He "died", but came back :P painjoiker Send a private message to painjoiker Mar 22 2011, 6:16pm
                                            Of course he died macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Mar 22 2011, 6:20pm
            I am getting the impression that no one here has Lindele Send a private message to Lindele Mar 22 2011, 3:23pm
                okay i;m sorry you are right. thehobbitftw Send a private message to thehobbitftw Mar 22 2011, 3:29pm
                I tried but.... Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Mar 22 2011, 6:47pm
    Angst is not the way to go with these films... Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Mar 22 2011, 4:09pm
        Well macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Mar 22 2011, 4:21pm
        "reaps what he sows" SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Mar 22 2011, 5:05pm
            well said Lindele Send a private message to Lindele Mar 22 2011, 5:27pm
        PJ's casting of Thorin Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Mar 22 2011, 6:21pm
            Elizabeth macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Mar 22 2011, 6:24pm
                You're right... Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Mar 22 2011, 7:27pm
    Tragedy Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Mar 22 2011, 5:59pm
        Tragedy macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Mar 22 2011, 6:19pm
    Tolkien was a genius StephenIbach Send a private message to StephenIbach Mar 22 2011, 9:02pm
    The story is not a tragedy but there are some tragic elements to it DrDeath153 Send a private message to DrDeath153 Mar 23 2011, 12:06pm

 
 
 

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