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DrDeath153
Lorien
Mar 23 2011, 12:06pm
Views: 1099
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The story is not a tragedy but there are some tragic elements to it
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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As fantastically written as the whole arc of Thorin's character is, and as heartbreaking as his fall and fate comes across, he is ultimately a supporting character in the story. The significance ultimately does not lie with what happens to him but rather the effect of it on Bilbo. That's not to say that our sympathies should always lie with Bilbo- in fact it is the crux of his development as a character that he should for a time be reviled by the dwarves; the people he has tried so hard to gain the approval of (and thus the audience too) but the dwarves ultimately represent an outdated mode of heroism and so it is Bilbo's reinterpretation of that code (having been educated in it during his journeys with them) that marks his full development, not as some poor copy or groupie to the dwarven way of life, but as an individual, made truly wise through sound judgement of all the lessons he has learnt without being bound to self-destruction adhering to one single mode.
Anyway, back to the tragedy of Thorin. Yes, it is tragic, and i think it should be played as being tragic. I wouldn't go as far as Macfalk's "dies slowly in agony knowing that not only is he about to die, he has also lost everything. His little confort is to have a last few farewell conversation with Bilbo." For a start, Thorin hasn't lost everything, he's gained more than he ever thought possible- he became King Under the Mountain once more! The tragedy is how he didn't get to enjoy that success; that he allowed himself to be defined by the trappings of Kingship and not the actions of it and so surrendered wisdom for pride.
There has been some suggestion that to portray a sympathetic Thorin, Peter Jackson will have to alter the book, incorporate deeper motivations and more shades of grey than feature in the book, like he did with Boromir (though in many ways Thorin has more in common with Theoden, particularly the film's version), but that's simply rubbish- all the stuff needed for a sympathetic Thorin is there in the book, and indeed as hobbitftw shows, i think many people see the pathos of the character and empathise with him right from the first reading, you just can't identify what makes him so based on his actions alone- a synoptic analysis of the character renders him in a very dim light, but it is how Tolkien has him appear through dialogue and prose that shows him in his true light. The Thorin as written is as complex and as ambiguous a character as any in written fiction or cinema today and so hopefully that will translate onto screen rather than taking the grand misconception that Tolkien writes two-dimensional characters. If he can do that without making Thorin overpower Bilbo in the film then he will have obtained true cinematic genius.
Dr Death
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Heart Wrenching story i think more than the Trilogy.What about you.???(spoilers)
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thehobbitftw
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Mar 22 2011, 8:20am
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I Can;t belive no omne has replid yet.////!
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thehobbitftw
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Mar 22 2011, 11:15am
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THE hobbit
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thehobbitftw
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Mar 22 2011, 11:30am
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You must have patience Padawan many have been resting.
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Kangi Ska
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Mar 22 2011, 11:32am
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I Just wanted to share those heart wrenching moments that surpass the trilogy
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thehobbitftw
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Mar 22 2011, 11:38am
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I genrally think
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thehobbitftw
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Mar 22 2011, 11:51am
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Heart-rending
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flodwyns
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Mar 22 2011, 3:39pm
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I can't say I'm with you at all on that
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Lindele
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Mar 22 2011, 2:16pm
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Disagreed, Lindele.
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macfalk
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Mar 22 2011, 2:48pm
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I agree
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Labrynian Rebel
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Mar 22 2011, 2:55pm
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Well.....
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dormouse
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Mar 22 2011, 3:05pm
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Yeah, The Hobbit has a more personal touch:
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macfalk
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Mar 22 2011, 3:06pm
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Thorins death is probably the most unemotional deathscene ever...
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painjoiker
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Mar 22 2011, 3:36pm
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hahaha,
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Lindele
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Mar 22 2011, 3:41pm
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Yes You are correct.lol
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thehobbitftw
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Mar 22 2011, 3:44pm
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Childrens' stories
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Elizabeth
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Mar 22 2011, 8:14pm
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Lindele
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macfalk
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Mar 22 2011, 3:49pm
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I have no problem
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Lindele
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Mar 22 2011, 4:00pm
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Gandalf didn't die //
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macfalk
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Mar 22 2011, 4:01pm
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come on, give me a break
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Lindele
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Mar 22 2011, 4:17pm
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'Scuse me?
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AlatarVinyamar
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Mar 22 2011, 5:37pm
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He "died", but came back :P
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painjoiker
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Mar 22 2011, 6:16pm
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Of course he died
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macfalk
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Mar 22 2011, 6:20pm
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I am getting the impression that no one here has
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Lindele
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Mar 22 2011, 3:23pm
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okay i;m sorry you are right.
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thehobbitftw
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Mar 22 2011, 3:29pm
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I tried but....
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Darkstone
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Mar 22 2011, 6:47pm
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Angst is not the way to go with these films...
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Captain Salt
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Mar 22 2011, 4:09pm
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Well
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macfalk
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Mar 22 2011, 4:21pm
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"reaps what he sows"
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SirDennisC
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Mar 22 2011, 5:05pm
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well said
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Lindele
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Mar 22 2011, 5:27pm
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PJ's casting of Thorin
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Elizabeth
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Mar 22 2011, 6:21pm
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Elizabeth
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macfalk
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Mar 22 2011, 6:24pm
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You're right...
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Elizabeth
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Mar 22 2011, 7:27pm
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Tragedy
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Darkstone
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Mar 22 2011, 5:59pm
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Tragedy
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macfalk
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Mar 22 2011, 6:19pm
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Tolkien was a genius
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StephenIbach
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Mar 22 2011, 9:02pm
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The story is not a tragedy but there are some tragic elements to it
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DrDeath153
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Mar 23 2011, 12:06pm
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