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Curious
Half-elven
Mar 13 2011, 7:10pm
Views: 236
Shortcut
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Sorry, I got distracted there for a while.
Z. - DD. Nice point about Freca, in particular, being an unsavory character who might burn captives alive. Also, nice point about burning captives not always considered shameful -- I would add that for long periods in history it was an accepted form of capital punishment. Thanks for noting the questions about whether the Rohirrim really hunted the Druedain.
In general I think it is possible to believe that there is a grain of truth in Saruman's lie. As you say, it doesn't seem credible that the Rohirrim would have been squeaky clean for 500 years. Then again, maybe there is no truth at all -- sometimes the most outrageous lies work because people figure there must be a grain of truth in them. No one would just make it up out of nothing, would they? Sometimes they would.
EE. I find it interesting that Erkenbrand feels authorized to grant the Dunlendings amnesty. But then Erkenbrand is Lord of the Westfold, which is adjacent to Dunland. Perhaps Theoden would not expect him to seek permission about such matters, even if Theoden is readily available to discuss it. And perhaps, as you suggest, it is such common behavior among the Rohirrim that it does not occur to Erkenbrand to bring it up. It seems to me that the protocol might be different in Gondor, where power is more centralized.
FF. - GG. I agree that by the rules under which Middle-earth operates, where oaths have real power, Erkenbrand and King Elessar are not guilty of being naive.
HH. I don't know if you deliberately misunderstood my question or not, but you raise a good point. If the Rohirrim did not pay reparations for taking Rohan, why then should the Dunlendings pay reparations now?
II. - KK. I agree that it would be unlike Tolkien to directly comment on specific real-world events. However I think the general contrasts between Middle-earth and the Primary World are intentional and didactic. I feel quite sure that Tolkien believed in mercy in the Primary World, and not just in the Secondary World, even where showing mercy seems risky.
LL. - MM. Then again, Tolkien seems to bend over backwards to make LotR a conflict between free peoples and monsters, with Saruman and Sauron's human armies kind of caught in the middle, deceived and misled, rather than just as monstrous as their masters. The monsters are offered mercy but never, ever take it. The humans are offered mercy and take it. Thus Tolkien externalizes most evil, which is mostly wiped off the earth, and happy days are here again -- except that some evil lives on in humans who exhibit monstrous behavior, i.e., a modern kind of evil.
NN. I agree that lumping all ancient dramas together is unfair. It does seem to me, though, that a certain genre of ancient literature exults in bloody victories, even while others -- for example, The Iliad -- do raise questions about whether victories are worth all the blood. They are war stories from a time when war was personal, when warriors fought each other hand to hand. Slaughter by great warriors is part of the excitement, even if questions get raised later. In the case of ancient monsters, though, few if any people regretted stories of such slaughters.
More later.
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User
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Time
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LotR, Book III Discussion: The Road to Isengard
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Curious
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Feb 27 2011, 1:25pm
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Ok here we have this forest....please keep axes stowed away in the upper compartment or under your seats.....
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PhantomS
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Feb 27 2011, 7:39pm
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That was quick!
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Curious
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Feb 27 2011, 8:27pm
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be hasty!
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PhantomS
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Feb 28 2011, 12:21pm
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I think Tolkien
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Curious
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Mar 3 2011, 3:30pm
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More thoughts about your thoughts.
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Curious
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Mar 3 2011, 10:17pm
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thoughts on thoughts
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PhantomS
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Mar 4 2011, 3:54pm
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Why would the Hornburg be ruled out as a rendezvous?
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Curious
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Mar 4 2011, 6:49pm
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Good idea
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Hamfast Gamgee
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Feb 27 2011, 11:41pm
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A visit to the bad neighbor
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CuriousG
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Feb 28 2011, 1:20am
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You could raise some question of your own,
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Curious
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Feb 28 2011, 1:00pm
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Ents neglecting hobbits
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CuriousG
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Feb 28 2011, 1:27pm
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Excellent question!
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Curious
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Feb 28 2011, 3:29pm
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You must be *this tall* to enter Isengard
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PhantomS
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Mar 2 2011, 1:34am
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A few responses
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sador
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Mar 2 2011, 8:08am
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oh darn
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PhantomS
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Mar 2 2011, 5:02pm
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Good point about the staff.
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Curious
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Mar 5 2011, 6:08am
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The staff is important
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FarFromHome
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Mar 5 2011, 12:26pm
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we need a Bible scholar
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a.s.
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Mar 5 2011, 3:11pm
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I've refered to this once
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sador
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Mar 5 2011, 8:39pm
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I agree about Gandalf's staff.
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Curious
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Mar 6 2011, 9:26pm
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Weather and floods and magic
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CuriousG
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Mar 7 2011, 3:47pm
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Let's see, where did I leave off?
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Curious
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Mar 8 2011, 8:08pm
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Orcs as sadists
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CuriousG
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Mar 9 2011, 5:57pm
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You were right the first time.
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FarFromHome
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Mar 9 2011, 6:06pm
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Ugluk said so.
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sador
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Mar 9 2011, 6:11pm
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He said so twice, actually
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squire
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Mar 9 2011, 8:12pm
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I have also understood so. //
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sador
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Mar 10 2011, 7:10am
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Okay, I guess a distinction
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Curious
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Mar 9 2011, 9:27pm
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Rivendell not a credible choice for a refuge / stronghold
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Felagund
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Mar 9 2011, 10:04pm
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My best rationalization/explanation
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Curious
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Mar 9 2011, 10:41pm
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woe as in malediction; and about those orcs...
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a.s.
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Feb 28 2011, 4:21am
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Well, if "woe" means the Ring,
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Curious
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Mar 9 2011, 11:01pm
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no, not "the Ring", but "something like"
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a.s.
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Mar 9 2011, 11:53pm
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Wright or worng?
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squire
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Mar 10 2011, 1:40am
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Yes, Tolkien didn't take the easy path.
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Curious
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Mar 10 2011, 6:12am
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I will think about this
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a.s.
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Mar 10 2011, 12:59pm
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Aragorn does parlay with the orcs at Helm's Deep.
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Curious
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Mar 10 2011, 1:24pm
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do you mean in theology, or in ME?
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a.s.
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Mar 10 2011, 2:46pm
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As I understand it, mortal sin cannot be forgiven after death.
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Curious
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Mar 10 2011, 3:15pm
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possibly true, but I thought we were talking about
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a.s.
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Mar 10 2011, 10:18pm
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It does make things complicated.
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Curious
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Mar 10 2011, 10:39pm
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Some random answers
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FarFromHome
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Feb 28 2011, 3:33pm
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Cheddar Gorge
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Kimi
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Feb 28 2011, 11:16pm
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Gimli does seem more down to earth,
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Curious
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Mar 10 2011, 4:25pm
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1. Some thoughts and answers to Questions A-Y.
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squire
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Feb 28 2011, 8:55pm
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A score
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FarFromHome
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Feb 28 2011, 9:38pm
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Thanks for adding your own questions!
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Curious
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Feb 28 2011, 10:16pm
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Regarding your extra thoughts
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sador
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Mar 2 2011, 10:01am
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There's bacon
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FarFromHome
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Mar 2 2011, 10:23am
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I finally have the opportunity
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Curious
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Mar 10 2011, 10:00pm
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Orc survivors from Helm's Deep
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Felagund
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Feb 28 2011, 9:49pm
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I did not know that.//
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Curious
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Feb 28 2011, 10:17pm
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Not Helm's Deep - they escaped from the Battles of the Fords of Isen
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squire
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Mar 1 2011, 7:48pm
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Helm's Deep still the best source for the Drúwaith Iaur 'remnant'
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Felagund
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Mar 2 2011, 10:49pm
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Imprisonment not exile.
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N.E. Brigand
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Mar 2 2011, 11:17pm
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Well spotted!
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Felagund
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Mar 3 2011, 12:15am
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2. Some thoughts and answers to Questions Z-ZZ.
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squire
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Mar 1 2011, 12:17am
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The need for a red shirt character
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Elizabeth
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Mar 1 2011, 5:25am
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It's early days yet!
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Hamfast Gamgee
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Mar 4 2011, 10:49am
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Regarding your extra thoughts - part 2
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sador
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Mar 2 2011, 11:17am
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Okay, back to your answers.
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Curious
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Mar 13 2011, 7:10pm
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3. Some thoughts and answers to Questions AAA-ZZZ.
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squire
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Mar 1 2011, 12:56pm
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Great observations
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CuriousG
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Mar 1 2011, 1:50pm
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Regarding your extra thoughts - part 3
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sador
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Mar 2 2011, 12:00pm
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Well
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Darkstone
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Mar 1 2011, 3:54pm
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You crack me up!
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Curious
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Mar 1 2011, 4:17pm
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All right, I have to get back to work,
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Mar 1 2011, 5:38pm
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Well (Part Deux)
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Darkstone
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Mar 1 2011, 7:07pm
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“Two legs bad, root system good.”
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CuriousG
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Mar 1 2011, 8:46pm
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"Ho ho ho! The sheepers do not play at their craft."
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sador
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Mar 2 2011, 2:12pm
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Comments on the chapter's summary
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sador
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Mar 1 2011, 5:47pm
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post-battle burial mounds / markers
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Felagund
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Mar 3 2011, 12:13am
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creepy places
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PhantomS
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Mar 3 2011, 6:29pm
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Snowmane was buried, not burned //
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FarFromHome
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Mar 3 2011, 8:06pm
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4. Some thoughts and answers to Questions AAAA-YYYY.
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squire
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Mar 2 2011, 8:46pm
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Regarding your extra thoughts - part 4
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sador
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Mar 3 2011, 10:34am
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How the Ents and Nazgul are alike
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squire
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Mar 6 2011, 7:35pm
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Gandalf
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Hamfast Gamgee
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Mar 3 2011, 12:30am
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5. Some thoughts and answers to Questions ZZZZ-YYYYY.
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squire
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Mar 3 2011, 6:47am
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Those paved roads...
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FarFromHome
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Mar 3 2011, 11:23am
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Regarding your extra thoughts - part 5
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sador
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Mar 6 2011, 9:43am
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cutting in
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PhantomS
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Mar 6 2011, 12:15pm
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If I may be so bold as to disagree
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sador
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Mar 6 2011, 1:50pm
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re:
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PhantomS
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Mar 7 2011, 8:59am
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6. Some thoughts and answers to Questions ZZZZZ-OOOOOO.
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squire
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Mar 4 2011, 11:55am
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You are welcome.
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Curious
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Mar 4 2011, 1:42pm
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Your three last thoughts
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sador
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Mar 6 2011, 10:36am
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On the "collision"
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FarFromHome
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Mar 8 2011, 10:11am
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Answers - part I
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sador
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Mar 6 2011, 3:55pm
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Of Orcs and Gimli...
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batik
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Mar 7 2011, 4:15am
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Answers - part II
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sador
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Mar 7 2011, 10:14am
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Rhovanion ancestors and the burning of prisoners
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Felagund
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Mar 9 2011, 9:42pm
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I have forgotten that. Thank you!
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sador
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Mar 10 2011, 7:16am
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