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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Main:
Reading literature for fun and saving our culture
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Half-elven


Feb 23 2007, 2:04pm

Post #26 of 38 (168 views)
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Don't know so much about the current generation of kids, [In reply to] Can't Post

but when I was little, back in the stone age, I looooved going to the library. Now I have a basement full of books: when we moved from our trailer to our house eighteen years ago, we brought ten pickup loads of books with us, and we've collected a lot since then. But I still love going to the library. I often check out books there that I later buy to keep, but it's a place I can get books with no worries about whether I'm going to like them or not. If I don't, I can just take them back. My own kids loved going to the library too. (About half their allowance went to library fines, because they were so bad at finding all their books when it was time to take them back. They'd show up eventually, but not always by the due date. But they never stopped checking them out.) They're grown now. I guess my nieces, who are still pretty young, also love the library. But my family's pretty geeky, so I'm not sure about the populace at large. I know when I go to the library there always seem to be plenty of people about, of all ages.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chance Meeting at Rivendell: a Tolkien Fanfic
and some other stuff I wrote...
leleni at hotmail dot com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Aunt Dora Baggins
Half-elven


Feb 23 2007, 2:18pm

Post #27 of 38 (161 views)
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This has evolved into an interesting discussion. [In reply to] Can't Post

I was the primary breadwinner when my kids were little. My husband was a stay-at-home dad for a while. But I was the one who read out loud to the kids for an hour every night. We both talked to them on a pretty adult level. I remember when my son was three, seeing him and my husband with their heads bent together over the insides of a radio. My husband said, "And this is a potentiometer." And then I heard a very serious three-year-old voice reply, "potentiometer."

I did have a pang one day when I came home from work and my husband and two-year-old daughter were looking at a book of animal babies. She said, "This is the baby lion, and this is the daddy lion. This is the baby giraffe, and this is the daddy giraffe. This is the baby elephant, and this is the daddy elephant."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chance Meeting at Rivendell: a Tolkien Fanfic
and some other stuff I wrote...
leleni at hotmail dot com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


AlassŽa Eruvande
Valinor


Feb 23 2007, 2:52pm

Post #28 of 38 (150 views)
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Speaking to kids on an adult level [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes!! I've always believed this to be the best. All I've got is anecdotal evidence, but I know it makes a difference in the kid's language. My mom used to babysit a kid whose mother baby-talked to him all the time and never used a normal voice. Well, guess what? The kid has language and speech difficulties. I have no idea if that is the only cause, but I bet it's a contributing factor.
That is why, when my niece was little, I gave her a doctor kit and explained what all the instruments were. My sister in law said the pediatrician was blown away when my 3 yo niece observed, "That is an otoscope. That is a sphygmomanometer," with perfect pronunciation!
Unfortunately, my in-laws use very casual and poor grammar. I'm always haviing to correct the kindergartener after they leave because he falls into their manner of speaking.


Hengist
Forum Admin / Moderator


Feb 23 2007, 4:54pm

Post #29 of 38 (121 views)
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And then it was gone [In reply to] Can't Post

If any one is confused I detached and moved (yes I can do that !!) Advising elfs sub thread to OT at his request.

So its there - not deleted, not lost, just moved.

this board is going to make it much easier to admin!



I meant," said Iplsore bitterly, "what is there in this world that makes living worthwhile?"

Death thought about it. "CATS," he said eventually, "CATS ARE NICE."

-- (Terry Pratchett, Sourcery)



Wynnie
Rohan


Feb 23 2007, 5:59pm

Post #30 of 38 (93 views)
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I had wondered [In reply to] Can't Post

but then I found it.


Owlamoo
ink drawing by JRRT


Eventides
Tol Eressea

Feb 23 2007, 6:30pm

Post #31 of 38 (101 views)
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*I* read literature. [In reply to] Can't Post

Classic and modern, and I love it.

Thanks for your contributions (they are). I hope you and your family grow in learning together!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"I stepped out of my body to let God slide in; although I'm still dressed in flesh that I spiritually died in. Alive in Christ a new creation started breathin', Life exists and through this came completion. ... I'm not that person anymore (more!)! That's what blood was shed for! No longer a failure, livin' life more abundantly, therefore you'll never see me livin' less than victory."
John Reuben.

"Desperation, needing You; every last breath I scream for You. Shatter me into a million pieces, make me new. ... Break me, mold me, make me what You want me to be; I am Yours, for You to use, so take and replace me with You."
Family Force 5.

"Under a light in Bethlehem, I was sifting through the sand; the saline burned my eyes, I was looking for Your hand. I gave up on myself, and left my pride disarmed; I cried out 'I'm alone!' and found myself in Your arms. 'Rest in Me, oh, My love; I have loved you before the world began. Rest in Me, oh, My love; you'll never wander too far to reach My hand.'"
Showbread.


Elanor
Bree

Feb 23 2007, 6:51pm

Post #32 of 38 (94 views)
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You can lead children to books [In reply to] Can't Post

but you can't make them read. I stayed at home with my children full time up until last year, and my youngest is nearly 15. I did everything I could to encourage them to love books - sat them on my knee from the age of about three weeks with picture books, let them see me read when I should have been cooking their tea, read to them as often as they'd let me (I love to read aloud). But neither of them now read out of choice, only as a way of accessing information they want or need. It really saddens me, as books have been such a joy to me all my life and I feel they're missing out on so much, but I just have to keep telling myself I did my very best.

"Frodo thought for a moment. 'Well, Sam, what about elanor, the sun-star, you remember the little golden flower in the grass of Lothlorien?'"


Aunt Dora Baggins
Half-elven


Feb 23 2007, 8:31pm

Post #33 of 38 (88 views)
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The same thing happened to me with music [In reply to] Can't Post

As a kid I was almost as avid about making music as I was about reading. High school orchestra was a real joy in my life, and I taught myself several instruments on my own. My kids took band, but the quit after a couple of years, and they don't play any instruments now. I have also always been an avid dancer, and they don't do that either, though I took them with me to the folk dance all through their babyhood and early childhood.

Kids are their own people, as Khalil Gibran said:


They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come trough you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of to-narrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the Archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chance Meeting at Rivendell: a Tolkien Fanfic
and some other stuff I wrote...
leleni at hotmail dot com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Tolchemist
The Shire

Feb 24 2007, 1:58am

Post #34 of 38 (74 views)
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good points, however [In reply to] Can't Post

the problem is that all too often the

Quote
"idiot box and psycho-generator" - dideye


live up to their names.
Theater, movies, music, games and non-literary literature can be enriching and certainly entertaining. I think it all has to do with content - and most of the time it seems (at least to me) that the entertainment aspect is pushed more than anything.

Latin is a language, as dead as dead can be
It killed the ancient Romans
And now it's killing me!


Annael
Half-elven


Feb 24 2007, 2:27am

Post #35 of 38 (90 views)
Shortcut
kids are their own people [In reply to] Can't Post

I love this quote from Buckminster Fuller (I am paraphrasing as I don't have the book with me right now - it's in "The Soul of Money" by Lynne Twist):


Quote

Children are our ambassadors from the future. They live in a world which we can only visit through them.


I think that's true. The world the next generation lives in is not the world I knew, just as the world I live in is not the world my parents knew. Each generation was formed by different forces and has been shaped by different experiences. This concept humbled me a lot when I read it; now instead of always trying to be the voice of experience and wisdom for my nieces & nephews, I ask them for their views & knowledge as well. It's amazing what I have learned from them.

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Tolchemist
The Shire

Feb 24 2007, 2:50am

Post #36 of 38 (76 views)
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It's sad. [In reply to] Can't Post

When I was younger, I read all the time for entertainment. Though most of it wasn't "literary" works. I don't read as much now that I'm in college, but I still read over breaks. When I was little, my parents read to me a lot. They also read to my siblings, but they don't read as much.
As others have pointed out, literary reading for fun has always been a rare thing in society, as was literacy. But now our society does have a high literacy rate (not the highest, but better than the past) and what are we doing? Watching "Jerry Springer" or "SpongeBob" and playing some mindless shoot-em-up. Not necessarily bad, if that is not the majority of what you do. There is other good media than literature out there, but those actually require some thinking. Our society seems to be in a race to the bottom of cheap thrills and idiocy. The problem isn't necessarily the decline in "literary reading" but in what we are replacing it with. As the old saying goes, garbage in, garbage out.
I really wish they had defined "literary reading." What sort of subject matter? Are they just going by the scholastic literary canon? I think some works have dropped in popularity because people don't find them as immediately relevant as other books. And there are more choices available today of what to read.
I think parents have a big influence on how much kids read. If they read to their children, and if their children see them reading, it reinforces the idea that reading is good, more importantly, that reading is fun. It also helps the kids learn to read, making it easier and thus more enjoyable. Some people just aren't readers, but I don't think that accounts for the decline.
It will be interesting to see what academia says is the cause of the decline and it's proposed cure.

Latin is a language, as dead as dead can be
It killed the ancient Romans
And now it's killing me!


Pukel-man
The Shire


Feb 24 2007, 4:03am

Post #37 of 38 (107 views)
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It's not literature, it's books. [In reply to] Can't Post

Soon as we get around to inventing the ibook - a portable e-reader with a perfect display - then I think we'll see a resurgence. People these days just don't want to carry books around, and they cost too much anyway. Current e-readers have displays that are inferior to paper.

I don't see literature dying out at all - but it's hard to imagine books will be around forever. In twenty or thirty years I think they'll be like vinyl to mp3s.


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Feb 24 2007, 5:39pm

Post #38 of 38 (108 views)
Shortcut
But even vinyl [In reply to] Can't Post

is now seeing a mild resurgence. There's something about the crackles and pops of a record played by diamond needle that give the sound a personality. Records will never regain their dominance, but there will always be the undercurrent of those (like me) who prefer them, and those users of electronic music who find themselves "discovering" them.

Similarly, although proper e-readers will be wonderfully convenient - they will be the next step up, from paperbacks - nothing will ever replace the feel and touch of a hard-cover book!

Heh, I got to thinking about the phrase, "be around forever". Electronics will degrade over time, and wear out; but books are still around, that were made centuries ago!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Still 'round the corner there may wait
A new road, or a secret gate...

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