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dormouse
Half-elven
Dec 8 2010, 11:47pm
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"The Great River" - 2: Thank goodness for elven cloaks....
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Taking up Chapter 9 at "the night passed without Gollum showing so much as a shadow" to "Time flows on to a spring of little hope".
Having been spotted, Gollum does not show himself again and now the whole Company is on the lookout for him. The encounter has stung the Company into a new sense of urgency and they are travelling by night and using the paddles, no longer satisfied with the River's pace. The countryside changes and there are flocks of birds about - also an eagle, flying high. On the eighth night it becames apparent that Aragorn has miscalculated - they are much further on than he thought, heading for the rapids of Sarn Gebir and caught in a current which is carrying them towards the eastern bank - as the keels begin to touch stone an ambush is sprung, with orcs on the east side of the river firing arrows at them. It takes a massive effort to paddle against the current and pull the boats back out into the River and away from the rapids. Then they sail for the western shore, where Legolas jumps for the bank with his bow just in time to shoot something large and menacing out of the sky.
When silence returns to the east bank the Company paddle quietly upstream to a shallow bay to wait for the dawn.
A few questions:
1. Any thoughts about the birds? In some landscapes seeing no birds is a sign that something is wrong, but here we've had small birds in the reeds, black swans, now flocks flying high and a hunting eagle. In 'The Two Towers' we will learn that this is Gwaihir, watching the River to find news for Gandalf, but at this point it seems to worry Aragorn enough to make him decide not to travel in daylight. On first reading did you think the eagle was a good sign or a bad one? Do you think any of the other birds were watching the Company?
2. Any thoughts on the interaction of Aragorn and Boromir just before the ambush?
3. Does anything strike you about the ambush? Do you think Gollum was involved?
4. The winged creature Legolas shoots... What do you think it was? Frodo knew, but why didn't he tell the others?
5. Any comments on the conversation about time at the end of this section? Frodo's thoughts about their time in Lorien and Legolas' explanation of time as experienced by the elves shed light on the previous chapters.
6. Any other thoughts?
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Darkstone
Immortal
Dec 9 2010, 4:32pm
Post #2 of 23
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1. Any thoughts about the birds?
Anyone hanging around casually whistling can’t help but be suspicious.
In some landscapes seeing no birds is a sign that something is wrong, but here we've had small birds in the reeds, black swans, now flocks flying high and a hunting eagle.
Sounds like the first four verses of Middle Earth’s version of “The Twelve Days of Christmas”, aka “A Black Swan in a Mallorn”.
In 'The Two Towers' we will learn that this is Gwaihir, watching the River to find news for Gandalf, but at this point it seems to worry Aragorn enough to make him decide not to travel in daylight. On first reading did you think the eagle was a good sign or a bad one?
Like Bilbo felt in The Hobbit, it depends on whether the eagle is hungry or not.
Do you think any of the other birds were watching the Company?
Lots of looky-loos. Maybe some jub jub birds, but then “jub jub” is a phrase in both Jawa and Ewokese so the Fellowship is in big trouble either way.
2. Any thoughts on the interaction of Aragorn and Boromir just before the ambush?
Score one for Boromir.
3. Does anything strike you about the ambush?
Hopefully not. And since no one was wearing a hat we’re spared another “arrow-through-the-hat” moment.
Do you think Gollum was involved?
Only if he had a set of semaphores.
4. The winged creature Legolas shoots... What do you think it was?
Something that grew in the telling. It started out as a sparrow and ended up being a Messerschmitt 262 Schwalbe. (Er, wait…)
Frodo knew, but why didn't he tell the others?
Harry Potter Syndrome again. I’m beginning to strongly suspect that Bilbo made Frodo sleep under the stairs at Bag End.
5. Any comments on the conversation about time at the end of this section? Frodo's thoughts about their time in Lorien and Legolas' explanation of time as experienced by the elves shed light on the previous chapters.
Time flies when you’re having fun, especially in the midst of hot Elven babes.
6. Any other thoughts?
Probably alcohol had something to do with it too.
******************************************
Chuck Norris does simply walk into Mordor.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Dec 9 2010, 5:44pm
Post #3 of 23
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Many fruitless victories and other gloomy things
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[Yes, I'm having fun with colors. It is the decorative holiday season, after all.]
1. Any thoughts about the birds? In some landscapes seeing no birds is a sign that something is wrong, but here we've had small birds in the reeds, black swans, now flocks flying high and a hunting eagle. In 'The Two Towers' we will learn that this is Gwaihir, watching the River to find news for Gandalf, but at this point it seems to worry Aragorn enough to make him decide not to travel in daylight. On first reading did you think the eagle was a good sign or a bad one? Do you think any of the other birds were watching the Company?
I definitely thought the eagle was evil on first read and that they should avoid its vigil. Yet it's curious they are suspicious of it, because when you get more into Tolkien (and Middle-earth), eagles are always good. Aragorn and Legolas should have known that, at least.
3. Does anything strike you about the ambush? Do you think Gollum was involved?
Gollum really hates Orcs. I don't think he had anything to do with them in Moria, and I don't think he tipped them off for the ambush, though the reader could easily make that assumption.
The Anduin is an awfully long river, so it's hard to believe there was a line of Orcs all up and down it. So either the ambush was by accident, with the Company blundering into an Orc stakeout, or the Orcs knew they were coming somehow. Is Sauron tracking Frodo via palantir?
4. The winged creature Legolas shoots... What do you think it was? Frodo knew, but why didn't he tell the others?
I've always assumed it was the same creature that Eowyn kills on the Pelennor Fields. Legolas later tells Gandalf he shot "the Winged Messenger," I believe. He doesn't say "I shot a Nazgul, so now there are Eight." Or even say that he shot the Nazgul's mount. Which leads me to think he didn't know it was a Nazgul (but as a reader I always thought so). If no one really knows what it is, I think Frodo didn't want to scare them further by telling them. Also, there's something about speaking your own fears aloud that can intensify them. Keeping that secret close was maybe his way of dampening his fear. And at this point, after it's gone, there's not a whole lot to be gained by saying what it was.
6. Any other thoughts?
We've gone from languid river travel to new peril. Things are heating up. Boromir and Frodo are more stressed, which will build up to rash decisions at Amon Hen. Lorien has receded as a haven: there's no going back to it now. Gloom is deepening again, and we're only one third through the story. The pattern of "fruitless victories" seems to continue. When they defeated the wolves' multiple attacks near Moria, there was no relief at the victory (except by Sam), only greater anxiety. But they had won!
Here they avoid an ambush and kill a winged, baneful beast. Do they celebrate? No, more anxiety. Looking ahead, is there rampant celebration after Helm's Deep and the destruction of Isengard? No, hardly a breather, because Pippin does his thing with the palantir which sets Gandalf in a panic which makes everyone tense again. Even later, Sam defeats Shelob, a nearly impossible feat, but so what, Frodo is alive and taken by the enemy. Many examples of victories that don't lead to relief or celebration. To the contrary, victory seems to lead to more tension. Cormallen is an exception. Then of course at the very end, victory over the ruffians in the Shire still means no relief for Frodo there. So in this chapter, on a smaller scale, we see this thread continued, which Elrond spoke about at the Council, of "many fruitless victories."
Would all of us see LOTR differently if there were significant breaks for carefree celebration? Not so much in this chapter, because the stakes are smaller, but if this wasn't a continuous thread and was perhaps broken in this chapter, would our gut feelings change? "Then the Company paddled to the western bank, and there they lit a great bonfire to taunt the Orcs on the eastern side, and they roasted the flesh of the Winged Messenger. They lingered several days in that spot to relish their good fortune, and the forces of the Enemy dared not come nigh to them, fearing that some Power was protecting them that their Master could not yet overcome."
Sorry for the fanfic, but just wanted to pose an example of how things could be presented differently. If all the tension were defused, would we be happy for the Company and still be turning the pages rapidly to see what's next, or closing the book at this point as a good place to stop for awhile?
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dormouse
Half-elven
Dec 9 2010, 11:25pm
Post #4 of 23
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The thing about the ambush that caught my eye this time....
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... was the planning behind it. As you commented, the orcs couldn't possibly have been lining the whole length of the Anduin, but they seemed to know that the Company were coming that way, and to have some sense of when, and to understand the river currents well enough to know that the boats would be carried towards the eastern shore at just that point - oh, and they had a Nazgul on stand-by. I don't think it would have been Gollum that alerted them because that would have sent the Ring right where he doesn't want it to go. My betting's on the flocks of birds the day before.
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PhantomS
Rohan
Dec 10 2010, 7:44am
Post #5 of 23
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1. Any thoughts about the birds? In some landscapes seeing no birds is a sign that something is wrong, but here we've had small birds in the reeds, black swans, now flocks flying high and a hunting eagle. In 'The Two Towers' we will learn that this is Gwaihir, watching the River to find news for Gandalf, but at this point it seems to worry Aragorn enough to make him decide not to travel in daylight. On first reading did you think the eagle was a good sign or a bad one? Do you think any of the other birds were watching the Company?
Aragorn of all people would know that the Eagles are on the side of good, but he also knows that they are animals and will occasionally just be animals and hunt etc. Yet it's one pair of eyes among many in the sky, and they already know Saruman searches with birds. In classical history eagles were often signs of divine direction; Alexander the Great reportedly turned back west after seeing an eagle fly that way in India.
2. Any thoughts on the interaction of Aragorn and Boromir just before the ambush?
For once, I can't agree with Aragorn against Boromir.
3. Does anything strike you about the ambush? Do you think Gollum was involved?
No one in Middle Earth likes Gollum , but people have followed him from behind as he is a fantastic tracker. Gollum used to eat Orc-imps, so I imagine they would hate him quite a bit.
4. The winged creature Legolas shoots... What do you think it was? Frodo knew, but why didn't he tell the others?
Frodo doesn't really know for sure, because he hasn't seen one in living daylight. It was something foul , but no one can really tell at this point. Only Gandalf will say that it was a winged Nazgul steed much later.
5. Any comments on the conversation about time at the end of this section? Frodo's thoughts about their time in Lorien and Legolas' explanation of time as experienced by the elves shed light on the previous chapters.
Legolas is our only window into Elven perception, yet he is but a Sindarin Elf with Silvan leanings- one can only imagine what the likes of Glorfindel and Galadriel see, a rich tapestry of what can and cannot be seen, and with memory of the true light of the Trees. Their experience of time is unique to say the least in that they don't use markers such as regular events or calendars so much as Men and Dwarves do; they use people and eras; Durin's Day, Time of the Trees etc. Only Cirdan can really tell us what it feels like to be in Middle Earth and live for so long, I guess.
6. Any other thoughts?
Faramir comments that Boromir was set adrift in the manner of Lothlorien, and speculates that if it wasn't the Fellowship it had to be the people of Lothlorien who set him in the boat; yet Boromir was set in haste with little ceremony, is this how people do it in Lothlorien? We don't see graves as such in the passage and there are no nearby forests to bury dead Elves apart from the unlikely Fangorn and the dangerous Mirkwood. How would Celeborn bury his slain subjects?
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Dec 10 2010, 12:31pm
Post #6 of 23
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How would Celeborn bury his slain subjects?
My guess is that there are burial spots. Arwen was buried on Cerin Amroth (at least, I think so). Others could have buried there too, unless it was a sort of graveyard reserved for royalty or the elite. There could have been similar hills or clearings for more common Elves. With the assaults on Lorien during the War of the Ring, there must have been many casualties.
You're right, Faramir almost implies that Boromir's last boat ride is an Elven tradition. Do funereal boats periodically come down the Anduin, defy Rauros, and sail to the Sea, observed by men of Gondor? Or did he think this was just a one-time thing to honor a fallen hero? I lean toward option #2.
I would think that Silvan Elves would want to be buried among the trees they love so much. Whether that's in mass graveyards surrounded by trees, or perhaps at the foot of the individual's favorite tree, is hard to be sure of.
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PhantomS
Rohan
Dec 10 2010, 2:50pm
Post #7 of 23
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My guess is that there are burial spots. Arwen was buried on Cerin Amroth (at least, I think so). Others could have buried there too, unless it was a sort of graveyard reserved for royalty or the elite. There could have been similar hills or clearings for more common Elves. With the assaults on Lorien during the War of the Ring, there must have been many casualties.
Arwen just lay down on Cerin Amroth; if there was anyone left to bury her we wouldn't have known about it. Being human she would have just rotted away, perhaps not as putridly as those born human but decayed nonetheless.
Looking back at the Last Alliance and the Sil, it seems like Elves never truly tell us how they bury their dead since death is something they don't understand- Feanor in particular just explodes in flame and Fingolfin is squished flat. Elves are buried near Dagorlad, but it's probably because there were too many bodies to bury properly or carry home.
You're right, Faramir almost implies that Boromir's last boat ride is an Elven tradition. Do funereal boats periodically come down the Anduin, defy Rauros, and sail to the Sea, observed by men of Gondor? Or did he think this was just a one-time thing to honor a fallen hero? I lean toward option #2.
Rereading Faramir's words it comes to mind that it isn't implied as an Elven custom (remember, he's the bookworm brother) but that he suggests that the Galadhim came to Rauros and arranged him that way i.e. for a Human funeral. The implausibility of that idea makes his arguement that some of the Fellowship survived stronger.
A boat sailing down the Anduin would be a shock to all of Gondor- nothing is supposed to come from that direction since the Rohirrim don't use boats and the northern good guys are far away. Gondor and Lothlorien are long sundered however, so a boat floating alone with no oars might be assumed to be an Elven funeral boat. The fact that Faramir saw it alone and recognized Boromir's new belt might have aroused those suspicions , with the elven boat and the implausible trajectory of the craft, and Boromir's seemingly unscathed body- plus those strange looking swords at his feet. Faramir himself might have forgotten that he is like the Dunedain of old ,and that his closeness to his brother might have allowed him to see the boat when others with him couldn't.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Dec 10 2010, 3:13pm
Post #8 of 23
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I've always wanted to have my remains scattered across over the forests of Eastern Texas.
Unfortunately, the law says I'd have to be cremated first.
I wonder if that would be a problem with Elves?
******************************************
Not all who wander are lost.
(But that's the way to bet.)
(This post was edited by Darkstone on Dec 10 2010, 3:14pm)
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Dec 10 2010, 10:51pm
Post #9 of 23
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Yes, Arwen was buried by someone
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My guess is that there are burial spots. Arwen was buried on Cerin Amroth (at least, I think so). Others could have buried there too, unless it was a sort of graveyard reserved for royalty or the elite. There could have been similar hills or clearings for more common Elves. With the assaults on Lorien during the War of the Ring, there must have been many casualties.
Arwen just lay down on Cerin Amroth; if there was anyone left to bury her we wouldn't have known about it. Being human she would have just rotted away, perhaps not as putridly as those born human but decayed nonetheless.
"...she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until all the world is changed." The grave indicates she was buried, not that she was exposed and rotted away.
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Dec 11 2010, 12:39am
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Don't be too sure about Eagles!
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In the Hobbit, it says that some Eagles can be cowardly and cruel. Given the desperate nature of their situation and given the fact that no-one unless you know them well can be trusted, look as the betrayal of Saruman for example, I can understand people been suspicious at least. The Eagle could have been bought by Saruman or Sauron for all they knew.
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Dec 11 2010, 7:31am
Post #11 of 23
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Gwaihir bore Gandalf to Lorien on Feb. 17, the day after the Fellowship departed. They just missed him! How would the story have changed if the Fellowship had waited one more day?
Gandalf fought the Balrog from Jan 15 to Jan 25, 10 days!
Also, according to the timeline in Appendix B, Gandalf lay dead on Zirakzigil from Jan. 25 to Feb. 14. He awoke but lay "in a trance" until the 17th. This has always seemed like an unnecessarily long time to me. Once again, I suspect Tolkien of manipulating the timeline to make things work out, even though these long intervals seem implausible, nourishing my lurking suspicion that he really wanted the Fellowship to depart on Christmas Day and the Ring to fall on Easter, and in some places he really didn't have enough plot to cover these intervals.
Thoughts?
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Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'
(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Dec 11 2010, 7:40am)
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PhantomS
Rohan
Dec 11 2010, 8:23am
Post #12 of 23
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'grave' doesn't mean she was buried
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the same passage says that there was no one left in Lothlorien as well;
"passed away to the land of Lorien, and dwelt there alone under the fading trees until winter came. Galadriel had passed away and Celeborn also was gone, and the land was silent. 'There at last when the mallorn-leaves were falling, but spring had not yet come, she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed"
Over time ground does swallow bodies up, even vegetation will grow over it. If we take the Red Book conceit then someone had to know she was there and buried her remains- yet there is no sign of who even wrote that part, unless the now-old Hobbits, Legolas or Gimli decided to add that chapter, since they're the only ones who knew where Cerin Amroth was. I guess someone made a marker for her in later days, but she certainly lived there alone and therefore died there alone.
Unless we think she dug a hole and just lay there, or laid herself on a pedestal like her husband and uncle? Like the Halfirien, where Elendil is buried in a dense forest clearing.
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Dec 12 2010, 12:26am
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...that her brothers knew/felt/detected that she had died and went to bury her, before departing over sea.
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Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'
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sador
Half-elven
Dec 12 2010, 10:28am
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1. Any thoughts about the birds? In some landscapes seeing no birds is a sign that something is wrong
In Hollin, as Aragorn says in The Ring Goes South.
On first reading did you think the eagle was a good sign or a bad one?
I don't think it is a bad sign - not unless the Eagles have been finally dislodged from the Mountains.
Do you think any of the other birds were watching the Company?
Perhaps. But for whom? Radagast? Galadriel? Not all watching birds are evil.
2. Any thoughts on the interaction of Aragorn and Boromir just before the ambush?
Based on what some people think of Boromir, it's a wonder he didn't take the opportunity to call Aragorn to account for incompetence.
3. Does anything strike you about the ambush?
Was it an ambush? Or a regular Orc patrol which were aroused by their crying out?
Do you think Gollum was involved?
It might even be a regular place for orcs to patrol in, as the Southren border of the area travelers or spies might try to cross at.
4. The winged creature Legolas shoots... What do you think it was?
I think one can guess by Frodo's hints.
Frodo knew, but why didn't he tell the others?
He wasn't sure? He guessed, of course - but did he know?
5. Any comments on the conversation about time at the end of this section?
It's interesting how easily Frodo betrays Galadriel's secret.
6. Any other thoughts?
Gimli calls the Balrog "the Shadow of Moria". Was all of the Balrog a shadow? Does this mean its wings were about as real as the rest of it?
"Welcome, and well met!" - Gloin.
The weekly discussion of The Lord of the Rings is back! Please join us in the Reading Room.
"No one seems to be in much of a hurry. Can you imagine Sean Bean, Orlando Bloom, and Viggo Mortensen just sitting in the boats without paddling?"
- Entwife Wandlimb.
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PhantomS
Rohan
Dec 12 2010, 3:51pm
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2. Any thoughts on the interaction of Aragorn and Boromir just before the ambush?
Based on what some people think of Boromir, it's a wonder he didn't take the opportunity to call Aragorn to account for incompetence.
I would trust a Ranger in the wilderness, even if I didn't really like him. I wonder if it was Faramir, Ranger Captain of the South though, who probably knows a thing or two about traipsing in the trees.
3. Does anything strike you about the ambush?
Was it an ambush? Or a regular Orc patrol which were aroused by their crying out?
The Orcs who shoot across the river are no doubt Dol Guldur's Orcs, but the ones that attacked the Fellowship seem to be some roving band that probably bypassed Lothlorien and came from the Mountains. Another gang of these Orcs is present at the conference between Ulguk and the other gangs, and they seem to have continued the hunt for the Fellowship.
6. Any other thoughts?
Gimli calls the Balrog "the Shadow of Moria". Was all of the Balrog a shadow? Does this mean its wings were about as real as the rest of it?
The Balrog was certainly not a shadow, being a being of flame. The 'Shadow' is capitalized, so it might be akin to the Shadow as Sauron and Morgoth spread it, or that it cast a shadow on the once filled-with-light Khazad-dum, being as big as it was.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Dec 12 2010, 7:12pm
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Was it an ambush? Or a regular Orc patrol which were aroused by their crying out?
I've always seen it as an ambush because it has the air of an attack planned to take place in just that spot, where the current would carry the boats onto the eastern bank, making the people in them easy targets. There also seems to be a Nazgul standing by. But of course, if it was planned that begs the question of how the orcs knew the Company was coming. Could have been Gollum, but I doubt if he would tell and risk losing the Ring. Could have been some of the flocks of birds. But it seems to me to show some knowledge of the river and it would have worked if the Company hadn't been wearing elven cloaks.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Dec 12 2010, 8:29pm
Post #17 of 23
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Yeah, it's hard for me to imagine that Tolkien did not plan on those significant Christian dates doubling as significant dates in LOTR. Harder for me to figure out if he thought the delays were reasonable, or if he didn't have enough plot so he had people stay put to fit the time line. One could say the long encampments were reasonable since in pre-20th century time, life moved more slowly, and people didn't expect to jet around and get everything done quickly. That's something the Industrial Age brought upon us. Sauron, depicted in some ways as the worst of industrialization, moves more quickly than the good guys. That could be unintentional on Tolkien's part. Maybe having Sauron move more quickly and be on the offensive increases our anxiety and keeps us glued to the books.
If Tolkien was lacking in plot points, and that's the reason for the long interludes, he could have made Middle-earth just plain bigger in the sense that the journeys in-between places took longer with more ground to cover. That way the Fellowship would have spent more time traveling, less time in Rivendell and Lorien, and we'd find this reasonable. Maybe he thought about this and figured the risk was: how many Warg attacks can you have before they get boring? And, how many months can you spend crossing Hollin and sailing the Anduin before that's boring too? Camping out in Elven realms may have seemed preferable. And maybe the long stays in the Elven realms was intentional on Tolkien's part while also fitting his time line, because the more time the Company (and we) spend there, the more we get a feel for what's at stake and what will be lost.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Dec 12 2010, 8:34pm
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Not to drag this out, but another quote that makes me think there were a handful of people left in Lorien. I don't take "the land was silent" as a total, absolute thing.
In the Greenwood the Silvan Elves remained untroubled, but in Lorien there lingered sadly only a few of its former people, and there was no longer light or song in Caras Galadon. This is after both Galadriel and Celeborn have left. Which is why I think Arwen didn't have the forest to herself, and that little remnant buried her. I'm sure there are Elves who couldn't leave the mallorn trees behind, no matter who else left.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Dec 12 2010, 9:20pm
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To be blunt, how could Frodo be so stupid?
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It's interesting how easily Frodo betrays Galadriel's secret.
Has the Reading Room figured this one out before? It's always baffled me as both incredibly foolish and also quite out-of-character for Frodo to babble about Galadriel having one of the Three. He knows it's a secret. He knows his ring is a secret. He won't even talk about his ring to Gloin in Rivendell, a sanctuary, so convinced is he that rings must be kept secret. And of course he kept his ring secret from his friends in the Shire. So, why give this away? He should know that no one else in the Company knows about her ring; even Sam couldn't see it when Frodo could. And this is vital information, which Galadriel also told him. Sauron "suspects, but he does not know." There could be any number of spies within listening distance, or any one of the Company could be taken prisoner later, tortured, and spill this secret. As I say, it's never made any sense to me.
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Dec 12 2010, 9:54pm
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Is it possible that he didn't know it was secret?
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Even if he didn't know the tale of Celebrimbor, the fact is that she told him flat out, when he saw it in Lórien:
‘Yes,’ she said, divining his thought, ‘it is not permitted to
speak of it, and Elrond could not do so.'
How could he have forgotten?
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Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'
(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Dec 12 2010, 9:55pm)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Dec 12 2010, 11:25pm
Post #21 of 23
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Possible excuses for an extraordinary lapse...
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Frodo's tired..... stressed because of their escape from the orc arrows and the Nazgul - which would have brought the whole matter of Rings to the front of his mind.... it's dark, and somehow it's easier to talk more unguardedly in the dark.... No, none of those really work, do they? It is an extraordinary lapse on Frodo's part - all the more so because he didn't tell the rest of the Company his suspicions about the Nazgul, so he was being careful about other things.
Maybe it's simply that on the matter of Rings he does trust the Company - after all, the Ring is a secret they all share. Not very good, but still the best explanation I can come up with....
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Dec 13 2010, 1:59am
Post #22 of 23
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Or maybe he needs a wart or two?
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Yes, Galadriel even reminds him that it's forbidden to speak of it. He does anyway just a few days later!!!
This thought came to me after reading the comments from both of you. Frodo is pretty perfect as a person throughout the trilogy. Since we find this lapse so hard to explain, maybe he needs a few character flaws to be believable? All the same, this is an odd way to give him a flaw.
I am reminded of a somewhat similar episode. Frodo was semi-rapturous and had a rather out-of-proportion moment when they left Goldberry behind. Maybe leaving Galadriel behind had the same effect on him, clouding his judgment with, I suppose, male hormones?
"Goldberry!" he cried. "My fair lady, clad all in silver green. We have never said farewell to her, nor seen her since the evening!" He was so distressed he turned back... That was after spending just a couple days at Bombadil's house, and not spending much time with Goldberry. So tall, beautiful, magical, remote women cause him to make a fool out of himself? That's nothing new for a guy. 
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sador
Half-elven
Dec 13 2010, 3:47am
Post #23 of 23
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The two farewells are similar indeed
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But I never thought that Frodo was acting either here or there as a normal male.
I attributed his yearning for Goldberry to the Elvish air Faramir will later notice, and his betraying Galadriel to the Ring.
Thank goodness Legolas felled the Winged Messenger just before that!
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